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Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

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  • #751
    Originally posted by senorsheep View Post
    I don't give street people money, but I am perfectly willing to help people who through no fault of their own are legitimately sick and seeking treatment.
    How do you know the street person is in that position through no fault of their own?

    So if the person is sick through no fault of their own, well you might step up - but if they are some guy sleeping on the street with a mental illness - screw him??? Why does the doctor have more responsibility to make the same decision you do?
    It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years and we must stop it.
    Bill Clinton 1995, State of the Union Address

    "When they go low - we go High" great motto - too bad it was a sack of bullshit. DNC election mantra

    Comment

    • #752
      Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
      I live in fly-over country. House calls ended when insurance companies couldnt authorize the treatments that were being done. My point is that healthcare was reasonably available and priced at one time in our past. What has changed?
      Okay, so long as we are not talking about chickens and house calls.

      I believe you said doctors should not be required to treat people they don't want to treat, or to treat people who cannot pay. It is not an unusual concept. Lawyers have to do it all the time. Lawyers get appointed to handle cases pro bono in both criminal court and in civil court. Sometimes there a nominal fees, sometimes not. The rational is that by becoming part of the profession you owe back to duty to serve. Sometimes that means representing those who cannot afford representation. Bear in mind, now, that we're talking about scummy lawyers here, not saintly doctors. It seems they would be happy to minister to the needy.

      Besides, I don't think anyone said anything about doctors working for free. The ACA never required them to work for free. Insurance companies ask doctors to cut their bills all the time. I had a procedure recently that cost around $1200. It was insured. My part was around a hundred dollars. The insurance company paid around $250. That was all. That was the deal they had with the doctor. If you went in without insurance, you would have to pay the whole $1200. And yes, if you had a health care savings account instead of health insurance, you would have paid the whole $1200.
      If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl Popper

      Comment

      • #753
        Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
        Shkreli is an ass and attempted (and to some point he was successful) to take advantage of the way drugs are regulated and there is no competition on drugs for X period of time before "generics" are then available. My contention is if you allow for true competition in the market the prices will actually go down. Please watch as Mr. Shapiro explains this very well:
        good video, thanks for posting it.
        "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

        "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

        Comment

        • #754
          Originally posted by cardboardbox View Post
          no one said insurance was $900/yr
          No they didn't because it's ludicrous to think that, but it's exactly what chafettz was implying.
          67.5

          Comment

          • #755
            Originally posted by Redbirds Fan View Post
            I believe you said doctors should not be required to treat people they don't want to treat, or to treat people who cannot pay. It is not an unusual concept. Lawyers have to do it all the time. Lawyers get appointed to handle cases pro bono in both criminal court and in civil court. Sometimes there a nominal fees, sometimes not. The rational is that by becoming part of the profession you owe back to duty to serve. Sometimes that means representing those who cannot afford representation. Bear in mind, now, that we're talking about scummy lawyers here, not saintly doctors. It seems they would be happy to minister to the needy.
            This is Bullshit! The 6th ammendment is what forces this:

            In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

            If you want to create a new Amendment - then it would materially change the argument.

            Lawyers have to - not from the kindness of their heart.
            It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years and we must stop it.
            Bill Clinton 1995, State of the Union Address

            "When they go low - we go High" great motto - too bad it was a sack of bullshit. DNC election mantra

            Comment

            • #756
              Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
              This is Bullshit! The 6th ammendment is what forces this:

              In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

              If you want to create a new Amendment - then it would materially change the argument.

              Lawyers have to - not from the kindness of their heart.
              Exactly

              Comment

              • #757
                Originally posted by Redbirds Fan View Post
                CBB, one reason people like Chaffetz get ridiculed all the time is because they say stupid sh*t. Average cost of health care for an American family of four is $2100 per month. Insurance policies regularly run from $500 per month for those who have good jobs to over $1500 per month for those who don't.
                link to the $2100/mo avg? My family of four is around $1k - 1.2k/mo, cant remember and dont want to dig through emails right now...

                Chaffetz didn't say an Iphone 7, but let's assume that he meant that. I got one Friday. It cost me $30 a month. Even if I to purchase for some reason, I could buy a dozen or so a year for what I pay for health insurance.
                you will end up paying the $750 - 950 if you choose to keep the phone. I think you can understand budgets, and how to save money. If I want X, I need to pay less for A, B, and C. I pay for my health insurance, therefore I need to cut corners in other areas.

                So here is what's wrong with what Chaffetz says. It implies that poor people piss away their money. It is like the study talking about how great the poor had it because so many of them had refrigerators. It is the 2017 answer to Reagan's "welfare queen" myth. It is snotty and implicitly racist. It is divisive. It foments class conflict. And it was politically inept for someone trying to pass a legislative package.
                LOOOOL, it didnt take you look to toss a racist jab in there. Good job!
                "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

                "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

                Comment

                • #758
                  Originally posted by Hodor View Post
                  No they didn't because it's ludicrous to think that, but it's exactly what chafettz was implying.
                  no he wasnt. Forgoing a new iphone is just part of saving for health insurance.
                  "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

                  "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

                  Comment

                  • #759
                    Pretty soon - cellphones will be a "right"
                    It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years and we must stop it.
                    Bill Clinton 1995, State of the Union Address

                    "When they go low - we go High" great motto - too bad it was a sack of bullshit. DNC election mantra

                    Comment

                    • #760
                      Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
                      This is Bullshit! The 6th ammendment is what forces this:

                      In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

                      If you want to create a new Amendment - then it would materially change the argument.

                      Lawyers have to - not from the kindness of their heart.
                      You (and nots) are partially (mostly) correct. The Sixth Amendment requires appointment of counsel in some cases, namely trials in which jail time is imposed by the federal government. It doesn't require counsel in other stages of criminal cases or in trials where there is no jail time. It has no application to civil cases, and it does not require all lawyers to represent criminal clients.

                      So, my bad, and nice catch by you two.
                      If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl Popper

                      Comment

                      • #761
                        Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
                        Do you guys really think people shouldn't have health care if they can't afford it?
                        I dont think doctors should be forced by the government to treat people that are not able to pay. If there are doctors willing to treat people that have limited capacities to pay - good for them.


                        That they should be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions or have life-time caps?
                        Again, these are decisions should be determined by the insurance company offering the policy to the holder. The business should not be forced by the government to provide any service that they dont feel is in the best interest of the business. That is how insurance companies make money. If there are companies that want to offer policies that dont have caps or provide for pre-existing conditions - good for them.


                        I think you come from this with the point of view that health care is a right. I come from this with the point of view that no doctor or business should be forced by the geovernment to provide a service to anyone. The doctor or business can choose who the want to provide services to.
                        I think healthcare is a right and I think we live in a society, which means--we share responsibility for maintaining it. Your taxes pay for things you don't care about as do mine. Becoming a doctor is about caring for your fellow man, healthwise NOT about making money that's why they have to take an oath to DO NO HARM. Withholding healthcare if you're a doctor is doing harm--Period. The founding fathers thought that LIFE was/is a right. To that extent our government and those who are citizens must find a way to make sure people get the care they need to live that life.

                        Now you might completely disagree with many or all of what I've said--and that's ok, but I'll leave you with this.

                        If you continually deprive people of basic necessities , they will find a way to get them--Survival instinct outstrips lawfulness.
                        If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                        Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                        Martin Luther King, Jr.

                        Comment

                        • #762
                          Originally posted by cardboardbox View Post
                          no one said insurance was $900/yr
                          No, but it does sound like he's implying that if they didn't buy a phone they could afford insurance.
                          Considering his only baseball post in the past year was bringing up a 3 year old thread to taunt Hornsby and he's never contributed a dime to our hatpass, perhaps?

                          Comment

                          • #763
                            Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
                            This is Bullshit! The 6th ammendment is what forces this:

                            In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

                            If you want to create a new Amendment - then it would materially change the argument.

                            Lawyers have to - not from the kindness of their heart.
                            It's in the Declaration as an Unalienable Right as I've stated before.
                            If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                            Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                            Martin Luther King, Jr.

                            Comment

                            • #764
                              Originally posted by cardboardbox View Post
                              link to the $2100/mo avg? My family of four is around $1k - 1.2k/mo, cant remember and dont want to dig through emails right now...

                              you will end up paying the $750 - 950 if you choose to keep the phone. I think you can understand budgets, and how to save money. If I want X, I need to pay less for A, B, and C. I pay for my health insurance, therefore I need to cut corners in other areas.

                              LOOOOL, it didnt take you look to toss a racist jab in there. Good job!
                              Uh, welfare queens are assumed to be black?
                              If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                              Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                              Martin Luther King, Jr.

                              Comment

                              • #765
                                Originally posted by Pogues View Post
                                No, but it does sound like he's implying that if they didn't buy a phone they could afford insurance.
                                no he was giving an example of one luxury item that someone might have to downgrade to pay for health insurance.
                                "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

                                "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

                                Comment

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