Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[onejayhawk]

fixed.

He would agree.

J

[Wonderboy]

Nice article on single payer in California. Costs to cover all would go from 270 billion to 300 billion, so not easy but definitely doable. Costs to small and mid sized businesses would go down by as much as 10%, so again, single payer is actually pro-business in a way.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/economist-does-math-single-payer-160945608.html

[onejayhawk]

"Not easy but doable" is what the national program would be. Unfortunately, it was sold as quick and easy, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." and "The average household will save $2500." Then they rolled out a monstrosity that isn't capable of setting up a decent website. What a CF.

J

[Mithrandir]

"Not easy but doable" is what the national program would be. Unfortunately, it was sold as quick and easy, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." and "The average household will save $2500." Then they rolled out a monstrosity that isn't capable of setting up a decent website. What a CF.

J

And the GOP were doing exactly what during this time???

[Hornsby]

And the GOP were doing exactly what during this time???

They were swinging away with axes at the foundations of the ACA. And once Trump got power, he EO'ed even more of the foundations, leaving it in the vulnerable state it's in today. Even the Roberts led Supreme Court, with Justice Scalia dissenting, upheld the constitutionality of the ACA.

[Redbirds Fan]

"Not easy but doable" is what the national program would be. Unfortunately, it was sold as quick and easy, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." and "The average household will save $2500." Then they rolled out a monstrosity that isn't capable of setting up a decent website. What a CF.

J

I'll admit that "you can keep your doctor" was a major screw-up and a massive mistake by Obama and the adminstration. But be honest...admit that every single person who "lost" their doctor was due to their insurance company cancelling their plan rather than meeting the requirements for grandfathering. We can disagree whether those requirements were too stringent, but that should be an issue for discussion.

Or you can just go with the GOP talking points.

[Wonderboy]

The thing is, we're already spending a ton of money on a bad system with out of control costs. Why not spend a little more to have a good system? Again, every other industrialized county has this but us. I bet we could do this for an additional 100 billion a year over what our bad system is already costing us. I can tell you, if we didn't have to pay for medical group insurance at my office, they first thing we would do would be to give out raises. Just a lot of peripheral benefits to the economy in having a single payer plan. Which is why I'm baffled that big business doesn't get behind it.

[chancellor]

And the GOP were doing exactly what during this time???

Virtually nothing since, as you may remember, "elections have consequences". I must politely disagree with Horns here, as much as the GOP would have liked to do anything significant, Obama's veto power pretty much prevented any major ACA changes. Heck, even with Trump in power, they've done very little.

Contrary to popular opinion on the board, the many failings of the ACA are due to the bill being poorly crafted, poorly planned, and poorly executed and not the GOP. One of the things I've seen conveniently left out of the "XX million people more have insurance" is what percentage of those were blackmailed into doing so by tax penalties should they not have health insurance. More than one liberal commentator has bemoaned the fact that the tax penalties were not high enough to get even more healthy, young people who didn't want bad health insurance to be fiscally forced to enroll.

[chancellor]

The thing is, we're already spending a ton of money on a bad system with out of control costs. Why not spend a little more to have a good system? Again, every other industrialized county has this but us. I bet we could do this for an additional 100 billion a year over what our bad system is already costing us. I can tell you, if we didn't have to pay for medical group insurance at my office, they first thing we would do would be to give out raises. Just a lot of peripheral benefits to the economy in having a single payer plan. Which is why I'm baffled that big business doesn't get behind it.

I'll grant that if you ran it, you might just pull off that figure. Sadly, you are vastly more competent than our government, and the concept that universal health care will only cost an extra 100 bil/year is an absolute hallucination.

Yes, Europe has had universal health care for a long time. They've succeeded by rationing care (which is why many Europeans have supplementary health insurance) and will do so to the point where they have absolute control over care, including terminating parental rights. The termination of parental rights has been supported by local and regional courts, most recently in the Charlie Gard case.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Let's just address the Elephant in the room.

It's about the money.

Period.

It's why Universal healthcare isn't a reality in this country as it is in every other industrialized nations. People would lose money.

If healthcare was free and no one stood to profit, then everyone would be fine with everyone being covered and wouldn't think twice as to which conditions should be covered and which ones not.

How many of you opposing Single Payer or Universal Healthcare are doing so because it would negatively impact you financially?

If you follow the money, you find the root of the problem. Look at California, Rendon, who shelved the Single Payer bill has taken donations from Pharma and Insurers.


Money, it's always about the money.

And it's morally wrong.

To place your or anyone's financial well being over your or another's health--Is wrong., There's really no debate. You can parse it you can say the rhetoric isn't helpful, but in the end--It's wrong and we know it.

And the whole "let the free market work it out" Well the free market has no ethics, it does one thing only--places a value on things and as is, it values one thing over everything else--A person or a company/product's ability to make others money.
That's why a guy who can increase your portfolio by 20% is worth more than a heart surgeon who can save your child. Why actors and athletes are worth more than teachers, paramedics and other vital occupations. And again, That's wrong--it's unethical to place financial gain over personal well being.

We know it, we accept it we want what's best for everyone as long as it doesn;t negatively impact our 401K or our ability to take a vacation or pay 20 bucks for a cigar. We know it, we ARE the elephant in the room.

It'd just be nice if we could all start admitting it.

THEN, maybe we could start making progress toward a solution not only for Healthcare, but other budget impacted issues as well.

[Wonderboy]

I'll grant that if you ran it, you might just pull off that figure. Sadly, you are vastly more competent than our government...

I think you vastly overrate me!

[Wonderboy]

Let's just address the Elephant in the room.

It's about the money.

Period.

Let me tweak your comment just a little and see if you agree. It's not about the money. It's about priorities. We place spending obscene amounts of money on the military over spending lesser amounts on decent health care. Our priorities are out of whack.

[chancellor]

I think you vastly overrate me!

Sadly, no.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Let me tweak your comment just a little and see if you agree. It's not about the money. It's about priorities. We place spending obscene amounts of money on the military over spending lesser amounts on decent health care. Our priorities are out of whack.

I'll agree about priorities, but people MAKE money on the billions wastefully spent on Defense, people would LOSE money of we went to single payer or Universal HC.

I'll say, people set priorities on making money over most everything else.

Here's a test. Who in here would live in a communal situation where everyone worked the same hours, had the same house, material possessions, but we were always healthy, fed, housed, clothed and safe from all danger?

[Hornsby]

Virtually nothing since, as you may remember, "elections have consequences". I must politely disagree with Horns here, as much as the GOP would have liked to do anything significant, Obama's veto power pretty much prevented any major ACA changes. Heck, even with Trump in power, they've done very little.

Contrary to popular opinion on the board, the many failings of the ACA are due to the bill being poorly crafted, poorly planned, and poorly executed and not the GOP. One of the things I've seen conveniently left out of the "XX million people more have insurance" is what percentage of those were blackmailed into doing so by tax penalties should they not have health insurance. More than one liberal commentator has bemoaned the fact that the tax penalties were not high enough to get even more healthy, young people who didn't want bad health insurance to be fiscally forced to enroll.

In and of itself, his constant bashing of the ACA and his insistence that it's not helping people, but instead hurting them has taken a toll. He's also done thing like order HHS to cancel ads leading up to the open enrolment period. Weakened enforcement of the individual mandate. Told individual states that they can apply for waivers modifying O-Care and Medicare. They all add up to enough to weaken the ACA to the point where it is actually in danger of imploding.

My eldest son was one of those who complained, and wouldn't pay, for insurance. After 2 years of doing so, he found out he had Crohn's Disease because he lost 85 pounds. He signed up for insurance this year, and is not receiving treatments twice a month. He's feeling good, gaining weight back, and now scared that his insurance is going to go away. He's one of millions of such stories.

BTW, with all of the misinformation about what is and isn't covered, he's what Minnesota does.

MinnesotaCare coverage

MinnesotaCare coverage usually begins the month after you pay your premium. You get services through a health plan. You can choose your health plan from those available in the county where you live.

The specific benefit set that you qualify for determines:

Which health care services are covered
If there are any limits on coverage
What you have to pay, if anything
You can also print a summary of covered services (PDF) that includes both Medical Assistance and MinnesotaCare.

What services are covered?
This is a summary of services covered by MinnesotaCare. This list does not include all covered services.

Alcohol and drug treatment
Chiropractic care
Dental care (limited for non-pregnant adults)
Doctor/clinic visits
Emergency room (ER) care
Eyeglasses
Family planning services
Hearing aids
Home care
Hospice care
Hospital services (inpatient and outpatient)
Immunizations and vaccines
Interpreter services
Lab and X-ray
Licensed birth center services
Medical equipment and supplies
Medical transportation (access, ambulance and special) for children under 21; emergency ambulance only for adults
Mental health care
Nursing homes and ICF-DD facilities for children under 21 only
Outpatient surgery
Personal care assistance (PCA) for children under 21 only
Prescriptions and Medication Therapy Management
Rehabilitative therapy
Urgent care
Some services or prescriptions may require prior approval from your health plan.

For details, call your health plan's member services or refer to your health plan Evidence of Coverage.

Deductible and copays

There are no copays or deductibles for children under 21.

Adults have the following deductible and copays:

$2.95 monthly deductible
$6 or $20 copay for prescription drugs, up to $60 per month (no copay for some mental health drugs)
$15 copay on nonpreventive visits (no copay for mental health visits)
$25 copay for eyeglasses
$25 copay per visit for radiology services
$25 copay per visit for outpatient hospital visits
$50 copay for ambulatory surgery
$50 copay for ER visits (except those that lead to an inpatient admission)
$150 per inpatient hospital admission
You must pay your copay directly to your provider. Some providers require that you pay the copay when you arrive for medical service.

For details, call your health plan's member services or refer to your health plan Evidence of Coverage.

What services are NOT covered?

Artificial ways to become pregnant, including in vitro fertilization and fertility drugs
Autopsy
Cosmetic surgery
Dental services deemed to be cosmetic or not medically necessary
Gender-reassignment surgery
Investigational or experimental medications or devices
Medical cannabis
Medications used for weight loss or erectile dysfunction
Missed appointments
Vocational or educational services

https://mn.gov/dhs/people-we-serve/adults/health-care/health-care-programs/programs-and-services/minnesotacare-coverage.jsp