Obama reelection 2012

[onejayhawk]

Obama was against indefinite detainment before he was for it: http://obamaspeeches.com/091-Floor-S...ama-Speech.htm

Here's Eric Holder getting on his high horse back in 2008 about the Patriot Act and indefinite detainment:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2011/12/06/irony-and-the-rule-of-law-part-1/

Tune's a little different now that they're, in essence, saying "just trust us" when it comes to assassinations of US citizens without warrants and on and on.

Now there's change, although it's pretty hard to believe in.

Bureau/cracy

Bureau - a piece of furniture with drawers, eg a desk.
-ocaracy - governance by

Bureaucracy - Governance by desks.

Never underestimate the power of a desk to cover its assets.

J

[GwynnInTheHall]

Bureau/cracy

Bureau - a piece of furniture with drawers, eg a desk.
-ocaracy - governance by

Bureaucracy - Governance by desks.

Never underestimate the power of a desk to cover the Ass that Sets there.

J

Fixed

[Moonlight J]

A new Quinnipiac poll finds President Obama leading Mitt Romney in three crucial swing states.

Florida: Obama 49%, Romney 42%
-- um, wow
Ohio: Obama 47%, Romney 41%

Pennsylvania: Obama 45%, Romney 42%

[B-Fly]

Moderate Republican Senator Olympia Snowe gives President Obama an "F" on his willingness to work with Republicans:



http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-pl...101657433.html

Olympia Snowe gives President Obama an "F" for not ceding agenda power to Olympia Snowe.

[nots]

Olympia Snowe gives President Obama an "F" for not ceding agenda power to Olympia Snowe.

The most rational, centrist Republican Senator hasn't been spoken to by the President in 2 years about anything and you choose to blast her? This isn't Jim DeMint or Tom Coburn we're talking about here. Maybe, just maybe, she has a point. Maybe the gridlock is a two way street and the hope and change thing was an illusion.
Nah, better to blame those evil centrist Republicans.

[Judge Jude]

It does seem like a stretch for a liberal to demonize a moderate Republican as soon as she fails to toe the Democratic Party line, lol.
Was she a voice of reason, or wasn't she?

[B-Fly]

It does seem like a stretch for a liberal to demonize a moderate Republican as soon as she fails to toe the Democratic Party line, lol.
Was she a voice of reason, or wasn't she?

I'm not demonizing her, but she was a voice of moderation and for splitting the difference, which is different than being a voice of reason. Although I know you tend to view those as one and the same. Moderation is a good course in some areas and not so good in others. Splitting the baby isn't always right or reasonable. Should Obama have worked harder to lobby for her support on key initiatives? Maybe. Should he at least have found a way to give her enough face time for her to feel respected? Yeah, probably. But my understanding is that she has generally been insistent that her support requires very specific substantive policy sacrifices of her choosing. Unless she's *the* swing vote as to whether something does or does not pass, it is not of particular value to make such sacrifices just so as to be able to say you got one Republican vote.

[nots]

I'm not demonizing her, but she was a voice of moderation and for splitting the difference, which is different than being a voice of reason. Although I know you tend to view those as one and the same. Moderation is a good course in some areas and not so good in others. Splitting the baby isn't always right or reasonable. Should Obama have worked harder to lobby for her support on key initiatives? Maybe. Should he at least have found a way to give her enough face time for her to feel respected? Yeah, probably. But my understanding is that she has generally been insistent that her support requires very specific substantive policy sacrifices of her choosing. Unless she's *the* swing vote as to whether something does or does not pass, it is not of particular value to make such sacrifices just so as to be able to say you got one Republican vote.

Fly--with all due respect--if the President isn't going to reach out to Snowe (or Collins or SBrown) who will he reach out to?
FWIW--I think Ted Kennedy's presence in the Senate has been sorely and greatly missed when it comes to dealing with the GOP. He would have pushed the President a lot harder than he's being pushed now.

[B-Fly]

Fly--with all due respect--if the President isn't going to reach out to Snowe (or Collins or SBrown) who will he reach out to?
FWIW--I think Ted Kennedy's presence in the Senate has been sorely and greatly missed when it comes to dealing with the GOP. He would have pushed the President a lot harder than he's being pushed now.

She didn't say that she received no outreach from the Administration; she said that she didn't get face-to-face meetings with the President. If that is something particularly upsetting to her, then I agree that that President should have learned about it and given her more face time, even if it wasn't going to lead to anything substantive with respect to legislation. It never hurts to show respect for folks on the other side of the aisle when those folks are themselves respectful, which Sen. Snowe by all accounts has always been. I think the President, however, viewed it as important to meet face-to-face with the Republican leadership of the House and Senate. John Boehner and Mitch McConnell have gotten a whole lot of face time -- more, I believe, than the opposing party's Congressional leadership got under any other recent president. Even though Sen. Snowe was closer to the President on the issues than McConnell or Boehner, one could reasonably argue that the most important way to demonstrate respect for the opposition party is to constantly engage that party's leadership, rather than attempting to cherrypick one or two of its most wayward members.

[onejayhawk]

She didn't say that she received no outreach from the Administration; she said that she didn't get face-to-face meetings with the President. If that is something particularly upsetting to her, then I agree that that President should have learned about it and given her more face time, even if it wasn't going to lead to anything substantive with respect to legislation. It never hurts to show respect for folks on the other side of the aisle when those folks are themselves respectful, which Sen. Snowe by all accounts has always been. I think the President, however, viewed it as important to meet face-to-face with the Republican leadership of the House and Senate. John Boehner and Mitch McConnell have gotten a whole lot of face time -- more, I believe, than the opposing party's Congressional leadership got under any other recent president. Even though Sen. Snowe was closer to the President on the issues than McConnell or Boehner, one could reasonably argue that the most important way to demonstrate respect for the opposition party is to constantly engage that party's leadership, rather than attempting to cherrypick one or two of its most wayward members.

She gave him a failing grade on working across the aisle. You are attempting to cherry pick yourself.

J

[B-Fly]

She gave him a failing grade on working across the aisle. You are attempting to cherry pick yourself.

J

Actually, you're quoting the headline, not Sen. Snowe. She said he'd "be close to failing on that point". I do not believe the facts would bear out any suggestion that Obama has not been engaged regularly and face-to-face with the GOP leadership.

[Lucky]

Fun fact: I learned while working on a newspaper that the writer of the article doesn't write the headlines, and usually has absolutely nothing to do with the headline. It is written by whoever is building the page, and usually dictated in large part by the space available. I used to get p***ed when the headline would completely miss the point of the article, or at least mislead the reader.

[Judge Jude]

"I learned while working on a newspaper that the writer of the article doesn't write the headlines, and usually has absolutely nothing to do with the headline."

almost completely true, though the NY Times columnists can write their own heds because the column width is always the same.
it's not really the same skill as reporting/writing anyway, so while the gaffes are bad, in general the headlines are much better overall.

[JudeBaldo]

I'm not demonizing her, but she was a voice of moderation and for splitting the difference, which is different than being a voice of reason. Although I know you tend to view those as one and the same. Moderation is a good course in some areas and not so good in others. Splitting the baby isn't always right or reasonable. Should Obama have worked harder to lobby for her support on key initiatives? Maybe. Should he at least have found a way to give her enough face time for her to feel respected? Yeah, probably. But my understanding is that she has generally been insistent that her support requires very specific substantive policy sacrifices of her choosing. Unless she's *the* swing vote as to whether something does or does not pass, it is not of particular value to make such sacrifices just so as to be able to say you got one Republican vote.

Too true. I learned this over the course of a business class on negotiation.

[Lucky]

Too true. I learned this over the course of a business class on negotiation.

I wish I could have audited that class; I'll bet it was very interesting.

Your mention of a business class brings to mind the oft-heard proclamation that government should be run like a business. I personally believe that is a terrible notion, since government plays too many roles in our society to follow the tenets of business, even the tenets which make for successful business. One thing that comes to mind is my court. As far as the administrative work of case management and distribution of income, we follow the most strict practices available. But the business of the court cannot be based upon a regular business model. I'm not out there to generate revenues. That's a side effect of what I do. I am there to ensure that justice is served, which requires a totally different skill set, procedures and operational philosophy. So, while some areas of government are suitable for a business approach, I would say the majority do not. You cannot select a target demographic; government has to work for all citizens or it is not doing its job.