Official Sexual Harrassment Thread

[Redbirds Fan]

Buccigross surprises me more. Berry gives off a creepy vibe.

Although, if you read up on both accusations, they are pretty mild. ESPN released the back and forth texts between Buccigross and Lawrence, and from what I have seen so far, they seem like two friends just talking. She starts by asking him if he wants to hang out over the weekend and he calls her "doll-face" and "dreamgirl", seemingly as compliments to someone he was trying to date, and someone who seems, in the texts, who also wanted to date. It all seems pretty innocent and friendly to me.

As for Berry, he apparently went along to a strip club with Jenn Sterger, and he was photographed pointing at her breasts. It doesn't surprise me that Berry went to a strip club, or that he is juvenile enough to point at a co-workers breasts as if he has never seen them before. It also doesn't surprise me that ESPN, being so male dominated has been tone def and best, and possible hostile to women that work there. However, these two examples are probably not the best/worst examples to use to really make that case.

It is so weird to me, as I reflect why I keep making points like this, that I find myself making these sorts of posts. I have never in my life done anything like even the most minor offenses being reported. And I think almost all of them are inappropriate at best. Being a progressive who would identify also as a feminist, who cringes anytime I read or hear an MRAer spout clueless anti-women rants, its surreal to find myself compelled to qualify, differentiate, maybe in some cases even make excuses for some of the behaviors being brought to light by the #metoo movement. I'm not sure where it is coming from, really.

I guess I just feel uneasy with what I perceive to be, in at least a small number of cases, some concerning conflation between serious crimes and less serious misdemeanors, and in rare cases, even things that seem like simple miscommunication. Seeing the Buccgross and Lawrence text exchanges, while I haven't flirted in that way with a co-worker, I guess I could see having done that, and not meaning any harm in doing it. If that is the extent of his interactions with her, it seems a real shame that his name is now in this thread, and associated, even in the vaguest way, with scum like Weinstein, Moore, Hoffman et al. At the same time, this movement and this moment is important, and I don't want to be on the side of those minimizing, marginalizing, or silencing the voices speaking up. I just would really hope that those who are speaking up know the power they now wield and are careful and thoughtful with what actions and words they label publicly as abuse/harassment.

You make some really good points here.

As much as we think back over our personal and professional lives and conclude that we are not guilty of the type of misconduct which would lead to a charge of inappropriate behaviour, the matter is really out of our hands for various reasons. One is because sexual harrassment is often in the eye of the victim. Exactly what was said 20 years ago, the nature of the relationship, whether an embrace was consensual...perceptions of these things can be subjective and can even change over time. Another reason is that we do things from time to time by which we intend absolutely no harm or offense, but which are taken very negatively and personally. A remark that someone looks pretty might seem harmless to one but offensive to another. A touch on the arm intended to be comforting can be seen as condescending. There are also cases in which we just forget the stuff that we did...dropping a hand to a butt while slow-dancing at a law school drinking party (still sorry about that Hillary). Inviting someone to go home with you who was not, it turns out, no the same wave length as you. And there are also, regrettably, people who just take some things too seriously. The Law has always recognized that society is a rough and tumble place and that no 'unpermitted touching' or perceived wrong has a legal recourse. Sometimes you just have to chalk it up to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and go on. I'm not victim-blaming here, just pointing out that there are many situations in life we can avoid or we can consciously take the risk of sub-optimal consequences.

A lot of us have been subjected to sexual assault and had to just deal with it. I'll share my story if anyone wants to read it.

The point is that not only can any one of us be a victim, but any one of us can suddenly become the accused. I think about it often. I may have mentioned it before, but one of my former secretaries sued a ton of lawyers she worked for, me being the only one left out of the suit. While I was gratified, I realize that I was fortunate not to be lumped in. She was crazy as hell, and could have just as easily worked me into her fantasy world.

I worry that some former girlfriend or date or girl I don't even remember will pop up and say I mistreated them in 1975 or 1992. How would I prove otherwise? It would hurt me, for several reasons. If it were someone I couldn't remember, it would hurt especially because my default position would be to give them credibility until something throws their story into doubt.

Two weeks ago I ran into a young woman I used to work with. We were pretty good "work friends" and shared stories about family, hobbies, etc. She smiled, walked over and went to hug me. Instinctively I stepped back from her. Instantly, we were both embarrassed and we both knew why. We recovered and had a brief chat, but a nice moment was lost.

This whole development will create massive issues for society and reshape the male-female dynamic. I'm afraid it will not be for the better.

[Mithrandir]

I heard the Gene Simmons one will be a Class Action lawsuit!!

[revo]

Latest Accused: HGTV's Carter Oosterhouse, Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson

[Fresno Bob]

I heard the Gene Simmons one will be a Class Action lawsuit!!

I listened to Gene sexually harass Terry Gross on Fresh Air years ago

[Hornsby]

Holy Crap! I don't know what Jerry Richardson did, but he's decided to sell the Panthers. I suspect the decades of bad conduct would have built up to the point where the NFL was going to have to do something drastic, so he's just bowing out, a sad old man going away in disgrace.

[Bernie Brewer]

Holy Crap! I don't know what Jerry Richardson did, but he's decided to sell the Panthers. I suspect the decades of bad conduct would have built up to the point where the NFL was going to have to do something drastic, so he's just bowing out, a sad old man going away in disgrace.

In his case, whatever he did, it sounds like it was saucy to say the least, but if I understand correctly he paid settlements and the persons paid apparently signed non disclosure agreements. How do the lawyer types on this board feel about people, who were likely represented by counsel, violating those NDA’s by telling all? I understand that civil settlements don’t cover criminal activity but...

[Hornsby]

In his case, whatever he did, it sounds like it was saucy to say the least, but if I understand correctly he paid settlements and the persons paid apparently signed non disclosure agreements. How do the lawyer types on this board feel about people, who were likely represented by counsel, violating those NDA’s by telling all? I understand that civil settlements don’t cover criminal activity but...

It's a guess, and only a guess, is that the people who came forward were ones who were harassed in some way, but were not covered by NDA's. Apparently, he had quite a track record of bad behavior, and I'd venture that many people were offended, but just didn't rock the boat...until now.

[Gregg]

I listened to Gene sexually harass Terry Gross on Fresh Air years ago

Would that be by today's standards or by the standards back then?

I remember a time that "dirty" jokes were common in the work place. Somewhere in the early to mid 90's they became off limits and punishable by firing (maybe lawsuits). Many women at the time thought it ridiculous and overkill. If you didn't want to hear walk away.

[Fresno Bob]

Would that be by today's standards or by the standards back then?

I remember a time that "dirty" jokes were common in the work place. Somewhere in the early to mid 90's they became off limits and punishable by firing (maybe lawsuits). Many women at the time thought it ridiculous and overkill. If you didn't want to hear walk away.

She went to hug him as he entered the studio and he basically said, "In my world open arms now mean open legs later". She was obviously rattled, and played the exchange as part of the interview, which was cut short when he said something else that I can't remember.

[Gregg]

She went to hug him as he entered the studio and he basically said, "In my world open arms now mean open legs later". She was obviously rattled, and played the exchange as part of the interview, which was cut short when he said something else that I can't remember.

How long ago was this?

[In the Corn]

And now the Democrats are coming back to Senator Franken suggesting he should rescind his resignation and that he has been treated horribly.

Good gravy, you just won the war by getting a Democrat elected to the Senate in ALA-FREAKIN-BAMA. Why would you want to concede the high ground? The Democrats are the other side of the same coin. Idiots!!!

[baldgriff]

And now the Democrats are coming back to Senator Franken suggesting he should rescind his resignation and that he has been treated horribly.

Good gravy, you just won the war by getting a Democrat elected to the Senate in ALA-FREAKIN-BAMA. Why would you want to concede the high ground? The Democrats are the other side of the same coin. Idiots!!!

Thats because the governor there is a dipshit!

[cardboardbox]

And now the Democrats are coming back to Senator Franken suggesting he should rescind his resignation and that he has been treated horribly.

Good gravy, you just won the war by getting a Democrat elected to the Senate in ALA-FREAKIN-BAMA. Why would you want to concede the high ground? The Democrats are the other side of the same coin. Idiots!!!

dont tell you that you didnt realize that was the plan the whole time. Pretend you're morally better than the other side and after the election go back to business as usual.

[Hornsby]

And now the Democrats are coming back to Senator Franken suggesting he should rescind his resignation and that he has been treated horribly.

Good gravy, you just won the war by getting a Democrat elected to the Senate in ALA-FREAKIN-BAMA. Why would you want to concede the high ground? The Democrats are the other side of the same coin. Idiots!!!

No, it's not the DEMOCRATS, it's a very small group (4 if numbers are to be believed) that want franken to reconsider. it's not going to happen, he was in consultation with the Governor the whole time, and he signed off on the deal. Tina Smith will be the Junior Senator From Minnesota until the next election.

This is not to say that there's not a chance that Franken won't run for for election again in 2018...

[revo]

Latest accused: actor TJ Miller ("Silicon Valley"), although the claims seem dubious