Yeah so global warming huh...

[onejayhawk]

point taken

but the frustration level for people denouncing science and factual information is a personal insult to me as a science educator

And I at people misrepresenting science. We have a fairly small increase over the last century. Some increase would be expected in the control, though it is unclear how much. Buffering and feedback factors are not well understood. Modeling does not track. In short, the science is not settled, much less mature.

Yet, we have this massive political movement. Drastic action is demanded, though the actions are simplistic and the affect dubious. All I am saying is throttle back. The sky is not falling today.

OTOH, the real issue with climate change is ocean levels. If the ice caps melt, as they melted in the past, it will cause significant disruption.

There is a continent under the southern cap. It will not melt in a human timescale. Half the northern cap is on water. Normally it would not exist at all, because it would float to warm water faster than it formed. In our case, the continental shelf inhibits the movement of seawater into and from the Arctic ocean. On a geologic time scale it is not stable. On a human time scale it may or may not matter. Small changes in current patterns may have large affects on the floating pack. To me that is a more urgent threat, but one that is ignored in the carbon hoopla.

J

[GwynnInTheHall]

We're all gonna die and it's our own doing. The End.

[DMT]

We're all gonna die and it's our own doing. The End.

Exactly why we've never encountered, nor will enounter, intelligent life outside our solar system.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Äliens must be sitting there like smart parents at the playground saying--look at that kid running around with a stick in his mouth, I wonder where his parents are?

[Lucky]

Äliens must be sitting there like smart parents at the playground saying--look at that kid running around with a stick in his mouth, I wonder where his parents are?

Oh, I think they are waiting until the worldwide flooding washes all the crud away, and they can take over a nice clean planet.

[onejayhawk]

Oh, I think they are waiting until the worldwide flooding washes all the crud away, and they can take over a nice clean planet.

I saw that movie too.

J

[Midnight Otter]

Exactly why we've never encountered, nor will enounter, intelligent life outside our solar system.

That and it's a looooonnnnggg trip.

[Lucky]

Oh, yeah, in my observations about how everybody got where they are, I forgot to say what I think we ought to do about it. That part, I think, is simple. It's a version of Pascal's Wager. We need to do everything we can to clean up the environment and prevent catastrophic climate change. If we were right about global warming, we've saved the earth. If we were wrong, we just have a nice, clean environment and a bunch of pissed off Republicans. Win-Win.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I saw that movie too.

J

remember that only the rich survived?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Oh, yeah, in my observations about how everybody got where they are, I forgot to say what I think we ought to do about it. That part, I think, is simple. It's a version of Pascal's Wager. We need to do everything we can to clean up the environment and prevent catastrophic climate change. If we were right about global warming, we've saved the earth. If we were wrong, we just have a nice, clean environment and a bunch of pissed off Republicans. Win-Win.

There you go with that theoretical stuff how about some facts old man.

[Kevin Seitzer]

That and it's a looooonnnnggg trip.

Are we there yet?

[Kevin Seitzer]

Oh, yeah, in my observations about how everybody got where they are, I forgot to say what I think we ought to do about it. That part, I think, is simple. It's a version of Pascal's Wager. We need to do everything we can to clean up the environment and prevent catastrophic climate change. If we were right about global warming, we've saved the earth. If we were wrong, we just have a nice, clean environment and a bunch of pissed off Republicans. Win-Win.

A big part of preventing global warming in the short term involves keeping China and India from industrializing further. That's an awful big thing to ask them to do. That's my big concern with it. Hopefully over the longer term we can find better technological and economic solutions that will be compatible with enriching rather than impoverishing people. In the U.S. I think we have started to do a better job of that, but it's easier to do that in a fully industrialized economy that outsources a lot of its manufacturing.

[Pogues]

I don't know why I keep opening this thread and reading it. It's like watching a nuclear bomb go off in super slow motion.

Oh, yeah, in my observations about how everybody got where they are, I forgot to say what I think we ought to do about it. That part, I think, is simple. It's a version of Pascal's Wager. We need to do everything we can to clean up the environment and prevent catastrophic climate change. If we were right about global warming, we've saved the earth. If we were wrong, we just have a nice, clean environment and a bunch of pissed off Republicans. Win-Win.

I think this sums up why I continually regret opening up this thread. It's this constant bickering and finger pointing and name calling about who's to blame, who's not doing what, if global warming exists and if it does if humans are causing the majority of it...

Lucky's right in what he says here.

I'm not convinced global warming is happening because of humans. Frankly, I don't want to spend the time reading all the material and doing the research, I'm not a scientist and that shit bores the hell out of me. But I want a clean environment. I want to see a world population that is not dependent on fossil fuels, but uses renewable energy and nothing else. I want clean cars, clean houses, clean businesses. I want clean water, foods not infected with chemicals and other crap. I want farmlands to not be destroyed and replaced by 300 houses. I want all this because it's better for all of us.

And anyone who doesn't want these things is an asshole. At least I think they are.

[umjewman]

I wore a coat this morning. But I didn't wear one this afternoon. What do you have to say about that, eggheads?

[GwynnInTheHall]

I wore a coat this morning. But I didn't wear one this afternoon. What do you have to say about that, eggheads?

You are done flashing?