Thoughts on Trayvon and Zimmerman...

[Roto Rooter]

In the last 6 months there have been over 200 homicides in Chicago. Real actual murders. Where's the national outrage over that? Where's the justice for those 200 people? 3 weeks before the nation's favorite holiday July 4th there were 46 people shot in one weekend including 7 killed. Where's Obama saying that those victims could have been his sons or daughters? Where's Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAACP decrying those tragedies and civil rights violations?

[Igor]

In the last 6 months there have been over 200 homicides in Chicago. Real actual murders. Where's the national outrage over that? Where's the justice for those 200 people? 3 weeks before the nation's favorite holiday July 4th there were 46 people shot in one weekend including 7 killed. Where's Obama saying that those victims could have been his sons or daughters? Where's Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAACP decrying those tragedies and civil rights violations?

I agree with you, there should be national outrage about gun violence, so glad your on board. That, or your just using talking points without really caring about it except for policital tit for tat.

[Kevin Seitzer]

In the last 6 months there have been over 200 homicides in Chicago. Real actual murders. Where's the national outrage over that? Where's the justice for those 200 people? 3 weeks before the nation's favorite holiday July 4th there were 46 people shot in one weekend including 7 killed. Where's Obama saying that those victims could have been his sons or daughters? Where's Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAACP decrying those tragedies and civil rights violations?

You're seriously complaining that President Obama isn't speaking out enough against gun violence?!?

[Moonlight J]

I agree with you, there should be national outrage about gun violence, so glad your on board. That, or your just using talking points without really caring about it except for policital tit for tat.

without any mention on where the guns being used in Chicago are coming from (something like 70% come from bordering states that have lax gun laws)

[Lucky]

sigh
according to the evidence, Zimmerman got out of his car AFTER the dispatcher asked which way Martin was going. He apparently DID listen to the advice that he need not follow, then walked back toward his truck - at which point he got his ass kicked and then....

if the media did such a good job, 90 pct of people commenting on the case would not be confused about the central point.

that doesn't mean people can't be upset that there generally is no law that prevents Zimmerman from reacting like this to being assaulted. one can reasonably ask if that should be addressed.

but the basic media and popular culture narrative of this entire case is inaccurate, a point not disputed by Martin supporters who actually followed the trial.

This case was somewhat unusual in that the jury was allowed to hear from Zimmerman without his having to take the stand and be subject to cross-examination. These statements made by Zimmerman are the only "evidence" as to what happened when the initial confrontation took place. Zimmerman had the right to take the Fifth and stay off the stand. From what I can tell, it was a good move, since he didn't seem particularly bright. A good prosecutor would have eaten him alive. But, even though the court and jury could not take into account the fact that Zimmerman refused to testify, we as citizens can draw our own conclusions about what facts were not presented to the jury.

Zimmerman had the burden of proving self defense (justified use of deadly force). It is a very technical and tricky defense. I didn't see enough evidence to prove it, at least from a judicial standard.

Another unusual item...I can't remember seeing another defendant successfully mount the justification defense without actually taking the stand. I have heard it argued that a defendant should be considered to have waived the Fifth if he relies on self defense.

[Long John]

sigh
according to the evidence, Zimmerman got out of his car AFTER the dispatcher asked which way Martin was going. He apparently DID listen to the advice that he need not follow, then walked back toward his truck - at which point he got his ass kicked and then....

if the media did such a good job, 90 pct of people commenting on the case would not be confused about the central point.

that doesn't mean people can't be upset that there generally is no law that prevents Zimmerman from reacting like this to being assaulted. one can reasonably ask if that should be addressed.

but the basic media and popular culture narrative of this entire case is inaccurate, a point not disputed by Martin supporters who actually followed the trial.

Ok, ok. You caught me. I actually have very little clue about the details of this case other than what I hear from my wife.

And this is exactly why I refuse to watch the news.

[Lucky]

Ok, ok. You caught me. I actually have very little clue about the details of this case other than what I hear from my wife.

And this is exactly why I refuse to watch the news.

In Long John's defense, wives are considered reliable sources in most jurisdictions.

[Hornsby]

sigh
according to the evidence, Zimmerman got out of his car AFTER the dispatcher asked which way Martin was going. He apparently DID listen to the advice that he need not follow, then walked back toward his truck - at which point he got his ass kicked and then....

if the media did such a good job, 90 pct of people commenting on the case would not be confused about the central point.

that doesn't mean people can't be upset that there generally is no law that prevents Zimmerman from reacting like this to being assaulted. one can reasonably ask if that should be addressed.

but the basic media and popular culture narrative of this entire case is inaccurate, a point not disputed by Martin supporters who actually followed the trial.

Because people generally have poor attention spans and equally poor reading comprehension. You see it on this site all the time, people either misinterpreting what another poster said, or simply ignoring it and rambling on to whatever point they wish to make.

The facts were out there, generally presented properly by the media, both print and broadcast. And, if you so wished, you could find gavel to gavel coverage of the trial to get both sides of the story, as unblemished as possible.

[Pogues]

Because people generally have poor attention spans and equally poor reading comprehension. You see it on this site all the time, people either misinterpreting what another poster said, or simply ignoring it and rambling on to whatever point they wish to make.

Hornsby, we're not all stupid morons who allow their thoughts...ooohh a penny!

[Fresno Bob]

[Fresno Bob]

not my words, but I wish they were (from the same source where I got the image above)

"Think about it: We’re told over and over that if Zimmerman was afraid of Martin, according to Florida law, he had the right to put a bullet in the chamber of his concealed handgun, get out of his car after being told not to by the 911 dispatcher and follow and confront Martin and shoot him to death.

At the same time, we are told that Martin, who had far greater reason to fear Zimmerman, practically and for reasons of American history, did not have the right to confront his stalker, stand his ground and defend himself, including by using his fists. We are told that this was entirely unjustified and by doing so, Martin justified his own execution."

[TopChuckie]

In 17 months, armed with the knowledge of all the witness statements and evidence, an entire team of educated and experienced prosecution lawyers couldn't come up with a clear, complete, concise theory/story of what went on that night. Yet all by himself, George Zimmerman provided a story only hours later that still makes sense and holds up in the face of all the witness statements and evidence, despite the fact he had no idea whatsoever who saw what, who knew what, or who would say what in the wake of that night. He did so 4-6 times without a lawyer and when confronted with the possibility of a video of the incident, he was relieved. What more proof could anyone ever need in order to believe he was not lying?

I watched or listened to almost every minute of the trial. I did not get my information from the media. Roto Rooter, I agree with everything you say regarding the case. Shame on the rest of you for contributing to the inflammation of the masses either because you don't know the facts of the case, or because you do and still want to propagate an agenda.

Fresno Bob, there are so many misstatements of fact/evidence in your last post, it's sad and disgusting.

[Judge Jude]

not my words, but I wish they were (from the same source where I got the image above)

"Think about it: We’re told over and over that if Zimmerman was afraid of Martin, according to Florida law, he had the right to put a bullet in the chamber of his concealed handgun, get out of his car after being told not to by the 911 dispatcher and follow and confront Martin and shoot him to death."

and this is posted after, for the second time, I noted how demonstrably inaccurate this narrative is about "getting out of his car after being told not to."

This is not a disputed point by anyone who spent 10 minutes paying attention. It's a wrong claim, and the world becomes a dumber place every time someone keeps posting AFTER it has been thoroughly debunked. Again. The rest of the sentence is also preposterous. The person who wrote it is an idiot.

There's so much that can be debated about this case - why not stick to those points?

and do you still wish you had written it?

[TranaGreg]

In Long John's defense, wives are considered reliable sources in most jurisdictions.

especially so in Utah.

[Fresno Bob]

Fresno Bob, there are so many misstatements of fact/evidence in your last post, it's sad and disgusting.

do I not know exactly what happened, sure, only one guy does, he killed someone, yet wouldn't go on the stand to explain what happened. That is sad and disgusting. Also, if it was my kid that Zimmerman had killed, I'd bet anything he wouldn't have gotten off so easily, since I'm white and can afford good legal representation. That is what is sad and disgusting.