Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[baldgriff]

BG going back even further now to make his arguments. We're supposed to evolve dude, not pretend we're still in agrarian times. Amazing that I have to explicitly state this.

So having a government forcing people to provide a service vs. someone consentually providing a service to someone is evolving?

People should be serving people and helping people out of the goodness and kindness of their hearts - the government shouldnt be mandating it.

If government intervention in every aspect of our life is evolving - I have concerns!

[fuhrdog]

Not a participant in this thread but I could swear Monty Python already did this sketch, I think it was called the "argument clinic" or something like that

[Redbirds Fan]

I don't believe that is true at all. Doctors charge less when a patient does not have insurance. A visit to the primary doctor with insurance, priced at $125 when you have insurance which might get chopped down with some agreement. But on an EOB it's $125. Go without insurance? Get charged $60.

It's so prevalent that there are people who go without insurance, or just with catastrophic insurance, and shop around for the best prices. With the continued rising costs in health insurance, many others will start moving in that same direction. Health insurance has made us lazy, and we are being taken advantage of because of this. We'll shop around for the best price for a TV, but we will happily pay our $25 co-pay no matter if they are the best deal in town or not.

I don't know what to say. There may be some doctors who know which patients don't have insurance, and bill accordingly, but almost no doctors are personally involved in their billing. And all of them have agreements with the carriers. Don't take my word for it. Ask anyone here who is a doctor, works for one, works for a health insurance carrier, represents a carrier, represents a doctor, or is otherwise in a position to know if I am wrong on this.

Yes it may say $125 on your Explanation of Benefits, but that doesn't mean the carrier paid that. Down in the small print it shows the discounted amount, sometimes a very small amount.

[Hodor]

Not a participant in this thread but I could swear Monty Python already did this sketch, I think it was called the "argument clinic" or something like that

That's merely contradiction

[Redbirds Fan]

Oh, the irony.... how many of those street people would be off the streets if they were treated for their mental illness and addiction problems? There are centuries of lessons about the wisdom of prevention.

Hey, I'm the Grinch-y libertarian guy on the board, remember? But healthcare is an arena where I'm willing to shift out of the capitalist/ individualist/ free market paradigm a bit. For me, the bottom line is: I'm not going to adhere to a philosophical stand if it results in people being ill and not getting the help they need. I understand fully that the collectivist approach invites all the usual problems, but I'm willing to try to make it work in the case of healthcare, because I think it would likely solve a host of other more important societal problems. The main reason I identify as libertarian-ish is because I believe we have on obligation to encourage the fulfillment of human potential, and sick people cannot do that.

I don't think the doctor should bear the responsibility to cover non-payors. Society should bear that responsibility. I would like the doctors to focus on healing, and for society to focus on how to cover the shortfalls in a way that is effective and fair to all stakeholders.

You're the man, Sheep.

[Redbirds Fan]

link to the $2100/mo avg? My family of four is around $1k - 1.2k/mo, cant remember and dont want to dig through emails right now...
you will end up paying the $750 - 950 if you choose to keep the phone. I think you can understand budgets, and how to save money. If I want X, I need to pay less for A, B, and C. I pay for my health insurance, therefore I need to cut corners in other areas.

LOOOOL, it didnt take you look to toss a racist jab in there. Good job!

According to the 2016 Millman Medical Index, the average annual cost of health care for a typical American family of four was $25,826, or just over $2,100 per month. That is the health care cost, not the cost of health care insurance. Much of the average family's health care cost is underwritten by employers. For those who have good jobs, as I said, health insurance can be had for around $500 a month, but there are still out of pocket expenses which average three or four hundred bucks a month for the average family of four. If your total health care cost, including employer contribution, is only $1.2K, that is unusual, but congrats.

What this shows is how critical health insurance is, and how hypocritical Jason Chaffetz is. Best I know, he gets his health care and his Iphone from Uncle Sam. Hey, I better watch out, he may investigate me.

[GwynnInTheHall]

According to the 2016 Millman Medical Index, the average annual cost of health care for a typical American family of four was $25,826, or just over $2,100 per month. That is the health care cost, not the cost of health care insurance. Much of the average family's health care cost is underwritten by employers. For those who have good jobs, as I said, health insurance can be had for around $500 a month, but there are still out of pocket expenses which average three or four hundred bucks a month for the average family of four. If your total health care cost, including employer contribution, is only $1.2K, that is unusual, but congrats.

What this shows is how critical health insurance is, and how hypocritical Jason Chaffetz is. Best I know, he gets his health care and his Iphone from Uncle Sam. Hey, I better watch out, he may investigate me.

Change your name to something Russian and you'll be safe.......

[Hornsby]

So having a government forcing people to provide a service vs. someone consentually providing a service to someone is evolving?

People should be serving people and helping people out of the goodness and kindness of their hearts - the government shouldnt be mandating it.

If government intervention in every aspect of our life is evolving - I have concerns!

You do understand that you, and just about every other taxpayer, is paying for the indigent if they don't have medical insurance? Just about every metropolitan area has a publicly funded medical center, in our case, HCMC, Hennepin County Medical Center. When people are transported, or go to the emergency room, they're treated, regardless if they have insurance or not. The cost is born by the taxpayer, and the facility, and trust me, the facility does NOT absorb the entirety of the cost. It's passed along to the insurance companies, who in turn pass it on to you. The Doctors, Nurses, Orderlies, Administrators, and anyone else involved all get paid. It's the worst kind of care economically for us as a nation. The Government is involved in just about every step of the journey.

Like it or not, this is what Government does, and will continue to do so whether you like it or not...

[cardboardbox]

According to the 2016 Millman Medical Index, the average annual cost of health care for a typical American family of four was $25,826, or just over $2,100 per month. That is the health care cost, not the cost of health care insurance. Much of the average family's health care cost is underwritten by employers. For those who have good jobs, as I said, health insurance can be had for around $500 a month, but there are still out of pocket expenses which average three or four hundred bucks a month for the average family of four. If your total health care cost, including employer contribution, is only $1.2K, that is unusual, but congrats.

What this shows is how critical health insurance is, and how hypocritical Jason Chaffetz is. Best I know, he gets his health care and his Iphone from Uncle Sam. Hey, I better watch out, he may investigate me.

$1200 is the total per month. I cant imagine we pay much more than another 200/mo in other healthcare expenses. $2151/mo is either some really nice insurance or some really sick people.

[fuhrdog]

That's merely contradiction

no it's not

[Hornsby]

$1200 is the total per month. I cant imagine we pay much more than another 200/mo in other healthcare expenses. $2151/mo is either some really nice insurance or some really sick people.

Again, that's the cost of HEALTH CARE for a typical American family, NOT the average cost of insurance.

[cardboardbox]

Again, that's the cost of HEALTH CARE for a typical American family, NOT the average cost of insurance.

Again, I dont see how people are spending that much. Even if I estimate we spend $300/mo on top of insurance costs, we're still almost $8000 under that weirdly high average Lucky posted.

And the real amount we spend in addition to insurance is probably under $200/mo in a year we use insurance, meaning we met deductible. Some years we dont use it at all other than a few office visits.

[DMT]

Again, I dont see how people are spending that much. Even if I estimate we spend $300/mo on top of insurance costs, we're still almost $8000 under that weirdly high average Lucky posted.

And the real amount we spend in addition to insurance is probably under $200/mo in a year we use insurance, meaning we met deductible. Some years we dont use it at all other than a few office visits.

Why on earth would you project your own family's experience on to everyone? It sounds like your family is pretty healthy which is great, and a sample of ONE.

[Hornsby]

Again, I dont see how people are spending that much. Even if I estimate we spend $300/mo on top of insurance costs, we're still almost $8000 under that weirdly high average Lucky posted.

And the real amount we spend in addition to insurance is probably under $200/mo in a year we use insurance, meaning we met deductible. Some years we dont use it at all other than a few office visits.

Because most people have small emergencies, medications, kids, and the like. I have one medication that costs $1800.00 every two weeks...I pay 5 bucks a dose. THAT'S why the cost of health care averages over 25 grand per family.

You're damn lucky to be healthy...one small appendectomy, or a MRI, and boom, you're well on the way to that figure, if not over.

[Redbirds Fan]

Again, I dont see how people are spending that much. Even if I estimate we spend $300/mo on top of insurance costs, we're still almost $8000 under that weirdly high average Lucky posted.

And the real amount we spend in addition to insurance is probably under $200/mo in a year we use insurance, meaning we met deductible. Some years we dont use it at all other than a few office visits.

Employer contribution is over half of the average family's annual health care cost that I cited. You are doing pretty well if you can keep your costs that low without getting your insurance through your job. I don't think I could afford it if it wasn't through my employer. I don't know how much their contribution is, but I know the policy would be more if I went out and purchased it on my own, plus the deductibles and co-pay would be higher.