Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[DMT]

Baffling that this needs to be explicitly stated, but there are winners and losers for every single policy ever enacted by government. Pointing out examples of people who are paying more accomplishes what exactly? Nothing. Of course it sucks for those who have to pay more, but having a huge percentage of our country with no insurance at all sucked a whole lot more.

[nots]

No, the Bush link was in response to the claim that the hallmark Obama's presidency was that of serial lying. The response was wholly appropriate. The cheerleading remark that you are unfortunately still making is just as stupid as the first time you made it.

Yeah cause there aren't folks in here that don't trip over themselves making excuses for this guy.
Tool

[nots]

Doubling and tripling down on the stupid isn't a winning strategy, fella. I never claimed anything about anyone making excuses. My post referred in no way to anything like that. "Tool?" Lol, you sad little man. Man, right? I'll assume man, I guess.

Cheer on, bro

[nots]

Well, and moreover, these are private insurance issues that we're talking about. The government is not forcing any private insurance companies to charge any specific amount. They are merely requiring them to adhere to bare minimum standards of coverage. So we have here a situation in which the most evil of all industries (ever?) is now forced to provide coverage for those most in need. You will no longer DIE because you cannot get health insurance. But to some, having to pay more personally, despite ever-rising costs long before this Act came into existence, is more important than that.

As many predicted, the ACA is a tongue bath for the insurance industry (actuall agree that it is the most evil industry). As I said before, if it becomes a bridge to single payer, it will be worth it. If we are still tweaking and twerking it 20 years from now, it will be a major financial burden on the federal government and the middle class.

[Cobain's Ghost]

Baffling that this needs to be explicitly stated, but there are winners and losers for every single policy ever enacted by government. Pointing out examples of people who are paying more accomplishes what exactly? Nothing. Of course it sucks for those who have to pay more, but having a huge percentage of our country with no insurance at all sucked a whole lot more.

i think it's worth noting that the promise aca was sold on - premuims will drop $2500 per year for the typical family - is bs, according to the latest estimates by the cbo.

then again, the full law doesn't even go into effect until 2014, so i think it's kind of absurd to declare aca a failure or a success at this point. i'm not sure how anyone can know what we've really got right now. you can't call the winner of a ballgame based on the first pitch.

[nots]

Actually, estimates are that it'll shave some $1.4 trillion off the debt over the next 20 years.

Same folks who said Medicare Part D was revenue neutral?
A healthy dose of skepticism is a good idea when it sounds too good to be true.

[Cobain's Ghost]

Where are the latest estimates by the CBO that you're referencing? I was looking for those earlier...

there's a link on politifact.

[revo]

All well and good, but if the discussion is about the ACA rollout, I don't see how posting about How Bush lied the US into a war with Iraq doesn't come across as either a huge deflection or some pretty vigorous Pom Pom shakin' cheer leading.

It was meant as a pot calling the kettle black statement. Don't go claiming this administration is "built on lies" when the last guy you had was 100x worse, sending many heroic American sons and daughters off to a bogus war they would never return from.

[nots]

It was meant as a pot calling the kettle black statement. Don't go claiming this administration is "built on lies" when the last guy you had was 100x worse, sending many heroic American sons and daughters off to a bogus war they would never return from.

Fair enough.
How do you feel about our current involvement in Afghanistan? Are we gaining anything to justify those sons and daughters who are never returning? Is there any outrage that at one time we had 3x the number of troops over there as we did during the Bush years? Is there any outrage that we still have almost twice as many troops there as we did at the end of the Bush era? Channelling my best Rick Waters: for who? For what?

[Cobain's Ghost]

probably not so much a case of obama lying, but over-promising. costs could have been reduced more with single payer and some other stuff that got chopped up during the legislative process. maybe he should have reset the expectations when he saw he wasn't going to get single payer.

[DMT]

probably not so much a case of obama lying, but over-promising. costs could have been reduced more with single payer and some other stuff that got chopped up during the legislative process. maybe he should have reset the expectations when he saw he wasn't going to get single payer.

Well, hopefully the American public wakes up and boots the idiots who made single-payer unfeasible politically.

[revo]

Fair enough.
How do you feel about our current involvement in Afghanistan? Are we gaining anything to justify those sons and daughters who are never returning? Is there any outrage that at one time we had 3x the number of troops over there as we did during the Bush years? Is there any outrage that we still have almost twice as many troops there as we did at the end of the Bush era? Channelling my best Rick Waters: for who? For what?

I don't want to get too sidetracked here, but Afghanistan committed an act of war against us on 9/11. That's a lot different than the vendetta war Bush waged against Iraq. Still as a military history major, history tells us Afghanistan is not a country to go to war with for the exact reasons why we're still there, 12 years later. Had Bush not gotten into Iraq and committed all his military and political assets to the Afghanistan war, perhaps things would be different now.

I supported Iraq at the time, but like many others, I feel like I got bamboozled.

If Obama is bamboozling me on ACA, honestly, at least it's for the greater good and will help people. If ACA or something like it would've been implemented 10-20 years ago, maybe my father, who was diagnosed with Diabetes at age 40 and didn't have health insurance, would've lived longer or even still be alive today. Maybe he wouldn't have needed to get turned away by hospital emergency rooms like a poor sap, or suffered through countless surgeries and then rehabbing at dirty, sub-standard rehab facilities, which only led to more infections and more surgeries. I'm sure there are many current cases like this who may now be able to get the care they need now.

I'd like to see a non-supporter of ACA go up to a loved one without health insurance and with a debilitating disease like diabetes and say 'sorry, die your slow, painful death because I think you'll be gaming the system at my expense.'

[revo]

Sorry about your father, Revo. If we had Obamacare in place back in 2004, my father in law would probably still be alive today as well.

Thanks. My mom told me a couple of weeks ago that when I was 8 and busted open my lip, they had to take me to three different emergency rooms because I was got turned away due to a lack of health insurance. Imagine carting around a screaming 8-year old all over the city with blood gushing out of his lip (I needed 12 stitches) and getting turned away because you don't have health insurance.

[Judge Jude]

factcheck.org

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/10/is-it-illegal-for-sebelius-to-buy-exchange-plan/?utm_source=FactCheck.org&utm_campaign=4841268962-FactCheck_Newsletter_11_1_201311_1_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3294bba774-4841268962-47738117

and

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/fighting-premium-spin-with-more-spin/?utm_source=FactCheck.org&utm_campaign=4841268962-FactCheck_Newsletter_11_1_201311_1_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3294bba774-4841268962-47738117

[mjl]

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/10/florida-woman-s-canceled-blue-cross-plan-is-junk/index.htm

all insurance is not created equal.