Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[Mithrandir]

Not for me. I very much like the guy I voted for.

I don't like Obama at all. Dude just seems as much of a weasel as most politicians.

[baldgriff]

It seems to me that too many people in this country are willing to settle for the 2 party system that we have and settle for "the lesser of two evils" rather than looking to see if there are other candidates that better fit their positions on the variety of stances. The parties to some degree count on this essentially stating they are better than the other major party - implying the secondary party candidates are not options worth exploring.


The two major parties are happy to let people pick from the lesser of two evils - it keeps them in business (and power)

:tinhat:

[johnnya24]

It seems to me that too many people in this country are willing to settle for the 2 party system that we have and settle for "the lesser of two evils" rather than looking to see if there are other candidates that better fit their positions on the variety of stances.

I agree with you there. A 2 party system can encourage complacency and stagnancy. It also becomes inherently self-serving as both parties will actively black ball anyone else from joining their game. With the control they are able to exert over the media, this is moreso today than at any time previously.

Fantasy time: STV PR please ... and force parties and delegates to work together, rather than artificially creating opposing voting blocs in Congress to essentially stymie progress. Right now it's an antagonistic process in order to find a resolution. Coalitions would change the dynamic of how progress is made. When I was younger I was duped by the typical argument for the 2 party system ... strong government = more stability etc etc. The reality is that that is BS ... the stability of a government is a consequence of its economic stability, and nothing more. Countries with strong stable economies often benefit from having coalition governments because it forces them to work together to find solution ... one side pressuring the other. It also gives proper representation to minority blocs such as the Greens and Libertarians ... who are generally ignored once the electioneering is over (or have their clothes stolen by the main parties). More people would make positive votes if they felt their vote counted for something ... rather than the spate of negative voting in recent elections i.e. I would vote for candidate X if i was voting my heart, but my head says candidate Y is the better bad option among the two main parties.

Of course this would challenge the power of the two main parties, so it will never ever happen.

[baldgriff]

Johnny and I agreed on something.....

Mark it down.

[onejayhawk]

It seems to me that too many people in this country are willing to settle for the 2 party system that we have and settle for "the lesser of two evils" rather than looking to see if there are other candidates that better fit their positions on the variety of stances. The parties to some degree count on this essentially stating they are better than the other major party - implying the secondary party candidates are not options worth exploring.


The two major parties are happy to let people pick from the lesser of two evils - it keeps them in business (and power)

:tinhat:

There is no settle involved. That is the nature of winner take all to be stable only with two parties. It is debatable whether that was by design, but I doubt. More likely an unintended consequence.

J

[B-Fly]

It seems to me that too many people in this country are willing to settle for the 2 party system that we have and settle for "the lesser of two evils" rather than looking to see if there are other candidates that better fit their positions on the variety of stances. The parties to some degree count on this essentially stating they are better than the other major party - implying the secondary party candidates are not options worth exploring.


The two major parties are happy to let people pick from the lesser of two evils - it keeps them in business (and power)

:tinhat:

Here's the thing, though. The Democratic Party does come pretty close to fitting my position on the vast majority of issues. And that is largely true for most of the folks among my friends, family and colleagues. While I agree with you and johnny that there are problems with a two party system, I don't know too many registered Democrats who are desperately hoping for either dramatic reformation of the Democratic Party platform or a third party to challenge the Democratic Party. And of my handful of friends who vote Democratic while holding their noses, most of them are disappointed that the party isn't pushing a more aggressive liberal agenda. In other words, they're not searching for a party somewhere in the space between the Republicans and Democrats. They're dreaming of a more purely left-wing ideological Shangri-La.

[Gregg]

Here's the thing, though. The Democratic Party does come pretty close to fitting my position on the vast majority of issues. And that is largely true for most of the folks among my friends, family and colleagues. While I agree with you and johnny that there are problems with a two party system, I don't know too many registered Democrats who are desperately hoping for either dramatic reformation of the Democratic Party platform or a third party to challenge the Democratic Party. And of my handful of friends who vote Democratic while holding their noses, most of them are disappointed that the party isn't pushing a more aggressive liberal agenda. In other words, they're not searching for a party somewhere in the space between the Republicans and Democrats. They're dreaming of a more purely left-wing ideological Shangri-La.

I get what you just posted. Would it hold up if you got beaten by 10 points in the election?

[Moonlight J]

Here's the thing, though. The Democratic Party does come pretty close to fitting my position on the vast majority of issues. And that is largely true for most of the folks among my friends, family and colleagues. While I agree with you and johnny that there are problems with a two party system, I don't know too many registered Democrats who are desperately hoping for either dramatic reformation of the Democratic Party platform or a third party to challenge the Democratic Party. And of my handful of friends who vote Democratic while holding their noses, most of them are disappointed that the party isn't pushing a more aggressive liberal agenda. In other words, they're not searching for a party somewhere in the space between the Republicans and Democrats. They're dreaming of a more purely left-wing ideological Shangri-La.

ditto

[B-Fly]

I get what you just posted. Would it hold up if you got beaten by 10 points in the election?

It wouldn't change the fact that the Democratic Party platform basically reflects my values and priorities. Yes, the Green Party Platform also basically reflects my values and priorities. If someone could convince me that the Green Party had a better chance of winning and therefore being in a position to promote an agenda reflective of my values and priorities, I'd vote for them. But that's not the America in which I live.

[baldgriff]

Does the Green Party match your values more than the Dems?

Is it more about voting for the party that has the best chance of winning and happens to match your position?

[Lurker765]

Papa John says he was misquoted before:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-h-schnatter/papa-johns-obamacare_b_2166209.html?icid=hp_front_top_art

"The good news is 100% of the population (full-time workers) is going to get health insurance. I'm cool with that."
"We're all going to pay for it. There's nothing for free."
"And this way I get to provide health insurance and I'm not at a competitive disadvantage ... our competitors are going to have to do the same thing"

[johnnya24]

Here's the thing, though. The Democratic Party does come pretty close to fitting my position on the vast majority of issues. And that is largely true for most of the folks among my friends, family and colleagues. While I agree with you and johnny that there are problems with a two party system, I don't know too many registered Democrats who are desperately hoping for either dramatic reformation of the Democratic Party platform or a third party to challenge the Democratic Party. And of my handful of friends who vote Democratic while holding their noses, most of them are disappointed that the party isn't pushing a more aggressive liberal agenda. In other words, they're not searching for a party somewhere in the space between the Republicans and Democrats. They're dreaming of a more purely left-wing ideological Shangri-La.

I think what's missing from the American political spectrum is a viable left alternative. All shades or right are covered, and very loud and at times a bit dumb, but the voice of the left is basically silent. A modern realist social democratic position would really enrich the debates. No chance of gaining any political leverage of course (as long as Republican's continue to call the Democrats "socialists") ... but would raise the IQ level of the debates ... and no doubt create some hilarity from the right. The people who I have seen advocating a leftist position are still locked into the old leftist agenda and rhetoric ... which is counter productive and regressive everywhere, but especially in the USA.

America has definitely been slowly been moving towards the left since the early 90's ... Bush's tenure seems more and more like a blip on that chart. Maybe that's why the GOP has gotten so militant and aggressive over the last 15 years ... as a reaction to the growing tide of public opinion towards a more liberal atmosphere? It would also help explain the (self-conscious or unconscious?) desire to make marginal moral issues central to their agenda ... as a further deflection from the real domestic issues, where the GOP seem unable to differentiate themselves and gain ground. Defense = same. Economy = same. Social Services = similar as long as the Dems don't make a point of calling for massive expansion of Social Welfare. Health = only real point of differentiation. So Immigration, abortion, gay marriage are shoehorned into the center stage.

American domestic politics was never really that interesting to me ... it's getting more interesting. The last 15 years, and the next 10 years will definitely get their own section on the USA's wiki page

[B-Fly]

Does the Green Party match your values more than the Dems?

Is it more about voting for the party that has the best chance of winning and happens to match your position?

It's pretty close to even. But even if, say, I was a 80% match with the Dems, an 85% match with the Greens, and a 10% match with the Republicans, I'd always vote for the choice between the Dem candidate and the Green candidate who has the best chance of defeating the Republican. The last thing I'd want to see is the votes of me and like-minded folks splitting in a way that benefits my least-favored candidate. It would not be remotely in my interest to promote something like that.

[B-Fly]

I think what's missing from the American political spectrum is a viable left alternative. All shades or right are covered, and very loud and at times a bit dumb, but the voice of the left is basically silent. A modern realist social democratic position would really enrich the debates. No chance of gaining any political leverage of course (as long as Republican's continue to call the Democrats "socialists") ... but would raise the IQ level of the debates ... and no doubt create some hilarity from the right. The people who I have seen advocating a leftist position are still locked into the old leftist agenda and rhetoric ... which is counter productive and regressive everywhere, but especially in the USA.

America has definitely been slowly been moving towards the left since the early 90's ... Bush's tenure seems more and more like a blip on that chart. Maybe that's why the GOP has gotten so militant and aggressive over the last 15 years ... as a reaction to the growing tide of public opinion towards a more liberal atmosphere? It would also help explain the (self-conscious or unconscious?) desire to make marginal moral issues central to their agenda ... as a further deflection from the real domestic issues, where the GOP seem unable to differentiate themselves and gain ground. Defense = same. Economy = same. Social Services = similar as long as the Dems don't make a point of calling for massive expansion of Social Welfare. Health = only real point of differentiation. So Immigration, abortion, gay marriage are shoehorned into the center stage.

American domestic politics was never really that interesting to me ... it's getting more interesting. The last 15 years, and the next 10 years will definitely get their own section on the USA's wiki page

That may be your take as an outside observer, but I'm not sure all that many Americans within the American political spectrum would agree with you. I think you've got right wing and left wing populists who think that both parties are too beholden to big business, but on deeply-felt moral issues, those groups find themselves at opposite ends of the spectrum. That's the Tea Party populists and the Occupy Wall Street populists. I think you've got a fair number of folks who also find themselves conservative on fiscal/economic/labor policy but liberal on social policies (e.g., Libertarians like senorsheep), and then a fair number of folks who find themselves liberal on fiscal/economic/labor policy but conservative on social policies (e.g., "Reagan Democrats" or blue collar union types or growing numbers of young evangelicals).

For those who find themselves left of the Democratic Party on all issues or right of the Republican Party on all issues, the current trend is already working. Primaries have been tending to compel Democratic candidates further left and Republican candidates further right. For those folks, the best bet would seem to keep doing what you're doing and watch your party become the left-wing or right-wing party you're craving.

[baldgriff]

At this point, I am so tired of the 2 party system that I will cast my vote for the 3rd party - even if the major party closer to my thoughts needs my vote. There will be no progress to getting away from the 2 parties until we all actually vote for paties other than them.