Originally posted by Lucky
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The GOPs Best Hope in 2012
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Originally posted by senorsheep View PostBottom line: The Tea Party movement isn't as pure and good as The Republicans tell you it is, nor is it as corrupted and bad as The Democrats tell you it is. The truth, as always, is somewhere in between.
I think a lot of confusion arises when opportunists like Palin and Bachmann step in. They talk financial conservatism to the Tea Partiers, but then turn around and talk social conservatism to their other audiences, and I think a lot of observers then wrongly conclude that Tea Partiers are animated about issues like school vouchers and gay marriage. I don't think most of them are.
I get that their fiscal vision doesn't resonate with the Left Wing Boys Choir here in The Sports Bar
Thanks for the explanation, I can totally understand how a movement/viewpoint can be hijacked by the extreme sides. I think you'd be surprised at how the "left leaning choir boys" understand the tea parties fiscal position, it's just that they feel (as I do) that revenues need to be a part of any solution to this crisis/issue. It's unfortunate for them that the Palin/Bachmanns have become the defacto face of their cause, but until those who embrace/champion the 'true spirit' of the tea party stand up and denounce them, it's sadly what they will be knows for.
This is why I think Obama is the GOPs best hope-- they cant seem to control the tea party whack jobs like Palin and Bachmann, their base (including those in the tea party who embrace what the feel are 'true conservative values') have been getting their way to date and they sure don't want another Democrat energizing the far left and gaining the White House (not that they could).
Obama doesn't seem to have the desire to do anything but work the center of the isle, which in theory, is what you want to do to govern for all Americans. But in reality, he's gone right of center on pretty much everything he's done since talking office--so IMO, that's Grea for the GOP because they can keep a far lefty out of office, keep the far right radicals at bay and still get legislation that benefits their core values passed without too much trouble.If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View PostThanks for the explanation, I can totally understand how a movement/viewpoint can be hijacked by the extreme sides. I think you'd be surprised at how the "left leaning choir boys" understand the tea parties fiscal position, it's just that they feel (as I do) that revenues need to be a part of any solution to this crisis/issue. It's unfortunate for them that the Palin/Bachmanns have become the defacto face of their cause, but until those who embrace/champion the 'true spirit' of the tea party stand up and denounce them, it's sadly what they will be knows for.
This is why I think Obama is the GOPs best hope-- they cant seem to control the tea party whack jobs like Palin and Bachmann, their base (including those in the tea party who embrace what the feel are 'true conservative values') have been getting their way to date and they sure don't want another Democrat energizing the far left and gaining the White House (not that they could).
Obama doesn't seem to have the desire to do anything but work the center of the isle, which in theory, is what you want to do to govern for all Americans. But in reality, he's gone right of center on pretty much everything he's done since talking office--so IMO, that's Grea for the GOP because they can keep a far lefty out of office, keep the far right radicals at bay and still get legislation that benefits their core values passed without too much trouble.
If you follow the thread, you will find it leads far into the Democrat center. Remember the Reagan Democrats? Reagan was a true fiscal conservative, and it showed. Some will argue against it. He was dealing with an even worse situation than this one, and the deficit was large in spite of his efforts. But his dual theme of spend less and promote entrepreneurship resonated with 60% of the country.
JAd Astra per Aspera
Oh. In that case, never mind. - Wonderboy
GITH fails logic 101. - bryanbutler
Bah...OJH caught me. - Pogues
I don't know if you guys are being willfully ignorant, but... - Judge Jude
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Nobody viewing this thread will admit being a member of the Tea Party? I don't mean "they have good points" or "I agree with their positions on some issues", but "I'm a member"?
Are there no members here, or is there some reason people will not claim membership in the organization?
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Originally posted by senorsheep View PostI get that their fiscal vision doesn't resonate with the Left Wing Boys Choir here in The Sports Bar
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Originally posted by Moonlight J View PostTheir newfound fiscal vision is what doesn't resonate well with me. Where the hell were they in the "deficits don't matter" era or the "it was common practice not to pay for things" era?
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Originally posted by Moonlight J View Postgoddamn scary image"I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."
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Originally posted by regular-guy View Posti agree with a many of the values of the Tea Party, but i've never been to one of the rallies or anything. i have work to do. The Tea Party isn't really a "party" in the proper sense of the word though is it? What constitutes being a "member" of the Tea Party?“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Originally posted by Wonderboy View PostAbsolutely. Guys like PaleoMan are far scarier than Congress, imo."I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth."
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Originally posted by Mithrandir View PostWhy? Hard for me to imagine anything scarier than our government.
Ask yourself? Who do you trust?
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Originally posted by Moonlight J View PostTheir newfound fiscal vision is what doesn't resonate well with me. Where the hell were they in the "deficits don't matter" era or the "it was common practice not to pay for things" era?
Anyone who read credible conservative blogs and forums during the Bush era knows that there were plenty of Republicans unhappy with the runaway spending. Heck, even Limbaugh used to gripe about it. What did you realistically expect fiscally conservative voters to do about it? Impeach Bush? Assassinate him? Vote for a Democrat who would spend more on priorities with which they didn't agree? They punished their party in 2008 and 2010 by refusing to support the Bush-era spenders, thereby forcing their party to refocus on fiscal policy. Isn't that exactly what they should have done? Sorry, man, there is no instant political karma in a free election democracy; it takes a while for the wheels to turn.
I think your real complaint is with Fox and the other Republican media lapdogs and their coverage of the unrest in the conservative ranks then and now. They didn't cover it during Bush because, quite simply, their political masters had the power, and they didn't want to rock the boat. When their political masters were drummed out of power, they decided that it would benefit their electoral chances to make fiscal responsibility a front page story again. Major parties and their media operatives do this all the time - make the story about whatever best helps their team's electoral chances. I don't think it's particularly fair to impugn the rank-and-file voters of either party due to the shenanigans of their power elite.Last edited by senorsheep; 08-08-2011, 11:09 AM."When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."
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