The GOPs Best Hope in 2012

[chancellor]

Is there anyone here who would describe themselves as being a member of the Tea Party?

I am not a "member" but am aligned with many of their views.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Bottom line: The Tea Party movement isn't as pure and good as The Republicans tell you it is, nor is it as corrupted and bad as The Democrats tell you it is. The truth, as always, is somewhere in between.

I think a lot of confusion arises when opportunists like Palin and Bachmann step in. They talk financial conservatism to the Tea Partiers, but then turn around and talk social conservatism to their other audiences, and I think a lot of observers then wrongly conclude that Tea Partiers are animated about issues like school vouchers and gay marriage. I don't think most of them are.

I get that their fiscal vision doesn't resonate with the Left Wing Boys Choir here in The Sports Bar

Thanks for the explanation, I can totally understand how a movement/viewpoint can be hijacked by the extreme sides. I think you'd be surprised at how the "left leaning choir boys" understand the tea parties fiscal position, it's just that they feel (as I do) that revenues need to be a part of any solution to this crisis/issue. It's unfortunate for them that the Palin/Bachmanns have become the defacto face of their cause, but until those who embrace/champion the 'true spirit' of the tea party stand up and denounce them, it's sadly what they will be knows for.

This is why I think Obama is the GOPs best hope-- they cant seem to control the tea party whack jobs like Palin and Bachmann, their base (including those in the tea party who embrace what the feel are 'true conservative values') have been getting their way to date and they sure don't want another Democrat energizing the far left and gaining the White House (not that they could).

Obama doesn't seem to have the desire to do anything but work the center of the isle, which in theory, is what you want to do to govern for all Americans. But in reality, he's gone right of center on pretty much everything he's done since talking office--so IMO, that's Grea for the GOP because they can keep a far lefty out of office, keep the far right radicals at bay and still get legislation that benefits their core values passed without too much trouble.

[PaleoMan]

I can dream. Sign needs to be updated though for accuracy. LOL Springfield Armory M1A Socom 2 on the left and a Bushmaster Basic ACR on the right. I also have a Romanian WASR 10/63 Kalashnikov (7.62 x 39) which isn't pictured.

[onejayhawk]

Thanks for the explanation, I can totally understand how a movement/viewpoint can be hijacked by the extreme sides. I think you'd be surprised at how the "left leaning choir boys" understand the tea parties fiscal position, it's just that they feel (as I do) that revenues need to be a part of any solution to this crisis/issue. It's unfortunate for them that the Palin/Bachmanns have become the defacto face of their cause, but until those who embrace/champion the 'true spirit' of the tea party stand up and denounce them, it's sadly what they will be knows for.

This is why I think Obama is the GOPs best hope-- they cant seem to control the tea party whack jobs like Palin and Bachmann, their base (including those in the tea party who embrace what the feel are 'true conservative values') have been getting their way to date and they sure don't want another Democrat energizing the far left and gaining the White House (not that they could).

Obama doesn't seem to have the desire to do anything but work the center of the isle, which in theory, is what you want to do to govern for all Americans. But in reality, he's gone right of center on pretty much everything he's done since talking office--so IMO, that's Grea for the GOP because they can keep a far lefty out of office, keep the far right radicals at bay and still get legislation that benefits their core values passed without too much trouble.

This is what most people are missing about the movement, as apposed to the Tea Party. In true grass roots style, there is no central authority, so the local differences can be substantial. Once you grasp that he central theme is fiscal, it is not hard to follow the thread. It also follows that fiscal conservatives will tend to have other conservative issues in common, hence the popularity of Palin, Buchanan, etc. But the focus is fiscal, and the other issues secondary, or tertiary.

If you follow the thread, you will find it leads far into the Democrat center. Remember the Reagan Democrats? Reagan was a true fiscal conservative, and it showed. Some will argue against it. He was dealing with an even worse situation than this one, and the deficit was large in spite of his efforts. But his dual theme of spend less and promote entrepreneurship resonated with 60% of the country.

J

[Lucky]

Nobody viewing this thread will admit being a member of the Tea Party? I don't mean "they have good points" or "I agree with their positions on some issues", but "I'm a member"?

Are there no members here, or is there some reason people will not claim membership in the organization?

[Moonlight J]

I get that their fiscal vision doesn't resonate with the Left Wing Boys Choir here in The Sports Bar

Their newfound fiscal vision is what doesn't resonate well with me. Where the hell were they in the "deficits don't matter" era or the "it was common practice not to pay for things" era?

[PaleoMan]

Their newfound fiscal vision is what doesn't resonate well with me. Where the hell were they in the "deficits don't matter" era or the "it was common practice not to pay for things" era?

Because these tyrants had a stranglehold over the party. But now the old right has reappeared on the landscape after it's long banishment.

[Moonlight J]

I can dream. Sign needs to be updated though for accuracy. LOL Springfield Armory M1A Socom 2 on the left and a Bushmaster Basic ACR on the right. I also have a Romanian WASR 10/63 Kalashnikov (7.62 x 39) which isn't pictured.

goddamn scary image

[Mithrandir]

goddamn scary image

any scarier than the bullsh!t that comes out of DC?

[regular-guy]

i agree with a many of the values of the Tea Party, but i've never been to one of the rallies or anything. i have work to do. The Tea Party isn't really a "party" in the proper sense of the word though is it? What constitutes being a "member" of the Tea Party?

[Wonderboy]

i agree with a many of the values of the Tea Party, but i've never been to one of the rallies or anything. i have work to do. The Tea Party isn't really a "party" in the proper sense of the word though is it? What constitutes being a "member" of the Tea Party?

I think self-identification is probably enough. Or maybe a minimum of participation, like attending a rally or donating to their candidate. But it may be enough to say, "I belong."

[Wonderboy]

any scarier than the bullsh!t that comes out of DC?

Absolutely. Guys like PaleoMan are far scarier than Congress, imo.

[Mithrandir]

Absolutely. Guys like PaleoMan are far scarier than Congress, imo.

Why? Hard for me to imagine anything scarier than our government.

[PaleoMan]

Why? Hard for me to imagine anything scarier than our government.

Yup. I want to leave people alone unlike these sickos. The government exists and thrives through the explicit threat of violence, if not it's actual execution. Plain and simple.





Ask yourself? Who do you trust?

[senorsheep]

Their newfound fiscal vision is what doesn't resonate well with me. Where the hell were they in the "deficits don't matter" era or the "it was common practice not to pay for things" era?

"If I can brand them hypocrites for something they've done in the past, then I don't have to listen to what they're actually saying." Nice. Has any faction of your party ever been late to come correct on an issue in the past? If so, does that invalidate everything they have to say about it now? A majority of Democrats supported DOMA and DADT at one point, didn't they? So now, if you're going to be consistent, are you saying they can never speak credibly on gay rights issues again?

Anyone who read credible conservative blogs and forums during the Bush era knows that there were plenty of Republicans unhappy with the runaway spending. Heck, even Limbaugh used to gripe about it. What did you realistically expect fiscally conservative voters to do about it? Impeach Bush? Assassinate him? Vote for a Democrat who would spend more on priorities with which they didn't agree? They punished their party in 2008 and 2010 by refusing to support the Bush-era spenders, thereby forcing their party to refocus on fiscal policy. Isn't that exactly what they should have done? Sorry, man, there is no instant political karma in a free election democracy; it takes a while for the wheels to turn.

I think your real complaint is with Fox and the other Republican media lapdogs and their coverage of the unrest in the conservative ranks then and now. They didn't cover it during Bush because, quite simply, their political masters had the power, and they didn't want to rock the boat. When their political masters were drummed out of power, they decided that it would benefit their electoral chances to make fiscal responsibility a front page story again. Major parties and their media operatives do this all the time - make the story about whatever best helps their team's electoral chances. I don't think it's particularly fair to impugn the rank-and-file voters of either party due to the shenanigans of their power elite.