Knife bans??

[baldgriff]

My government has already done this:

#1 - First Amendment - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

My government has granted me the right to think and say what I think. I dont have to be concerned about some Human Rights Tribunal making some judgement about what I said. I am "free" to speak my mind and let people make a judgement of whether what I say has merit or not.

#2 - Fourth Amendment - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

My government has granted me the right to safety in my home and that the government cant just come in an search my house for no good reason.

#3 - This was essentially what started the whole thing. "No taxation without representation".

The founders of my country didnt like the "crown" assessing unreasonable taxes as money grabs penalizing the people in the colonies (Tea Party anyone?).

I dont have an opinion of Canada. I feel very safe in my home.

[Teenwolf]

My government has already done this:

#1 - First Amendment - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

My government has granted me the right to think and say what I think. I dont have to be concerned about some Human Rights Tribunal making some judgement about what I said. I am "free" to speak my mind and let people make a judgement of whether what I say has merit or not.

#2 - Fourth Amendment - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

My government has granted me the right to safety in my home and that the government cant just come in an search my house for no good reason.

#3 - This was essentially what started the whole thing. "No taxation without representation".

The founders of my country didnt like the "crown" assessing unreasonable taxes as money grabs penalizing the people in the colonies (Tea Party anyone?).

I dont have an opinion of Canada. I feel very safe in my home.

Weird that you focus so much on gun rights as opposed to other rights.

You know your government is trying to make it legal to hit protesters with your car, right? Are you a big fan of stop-and-frisk? I mean, it's only black and brown people, their rights don't matter as much, right? Marijuana offenders dying in prison from non-violent drug crimes? No problem with the police state? Are you getting the theme here in regards to "freedom"? Freedom in the US is distributed unequally, according to an order of white supremacy. (Same in my country with Natives replacing Blacks in the equation)...

Glad we don't adhere to the policies of 150 years ago, when the goal of my country was to eliminate Native people as a biological and cultural entity.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/polit...ion/index.html

[baldgriff]

Your feeling of safety is just that, a feeling. Enjoy your feelings. Enjoy warming up by that dumpster fire of yours. The US is a $hithole country, possibly #1. You're #1, you're #1! Get pumped up!

#1 for corporate prisons! #1 for prisoners! #1 for gun deaths! #1 for highest healthcare costs! #1 Buffoon as leader! #1 student debt-load! #1 Climate change deniers!

Glad you feel safe, not many in your country enjoy the same feeling. Too bad you only care about your own feelings. Pretty selfish of you, but... that's AMERICA, right? Look out for #1... cuz you're #1... you're #1...

Im against corporatized prisons
Im against our "war on drugs"
We are not #1 in gun deaths per capita
Our healthcare system is a joke and got worse under Obamacare program.
I didnt vote Trump
I agree that our student load debt is ridiculous and is a bi-product of the federal government taking over the education system and loan system.
I have never denied climate change.

Holy shit have you fallen off the deep end. Maybe a toke would settle you down. Dude - I dont understand why you insist on making these personal attacks. We have differing viewpoints. OK. I dont view you as some piece of shit because you dont agree with me. I dont understand the vitriol.

[Sour Masher]

I gotta say baldgriff, I completely disagree with many of your stances, such as your general sentiment that we shouldn't have laws, since they only work to restrict the law-abiding, but I do admire your ability to take the high road on the forums. You get a lot of flack from some folks (on ideas, I'd argue it is warranted, but I don't like personal attacks in general, and you get those too sometimes), but you generally take the high road even when folks get personal/mean. I honestly don't know if I'd have the same restraint. You must be an admirer of Michelle Obama in that regard .

Hell, I'm a big critic of a lot of what the US does and does not do in terms of falling short of our ideals, and even I wanted to clap back at TW calling the US a shit-hole country (although I would take that term if it were coming from someone from a country Trump insulted with that term). We gotta a LOT of problems, but even with the dumpster fire we have in the oval office, the US still has a lot going for it. Calling us the worst country in the world is obviously just a jab at jingoistic "patriots" (which I'm guessing he thinks you are), but its still not something I like to hear from an outsider. And I thought all Canadians were polite. Thanks TW for breaking me of my stereotypes!

[Teenwolf]

I gotta say baldgriff, I completely disagree with many of your stances, such as your general sentiment that we shouldn't have laws, since they only work to restrict the law-abiding, but I do admire your ability to take the high road on the forums. You get a lot of flack from some folks (on ideas, I'd argue it is warranted, but I don't like personal attacks in general, and you get those too sometimes), but you generally take the high road even when folks get personal/mean. I honestly don't know if I'd have the same restraint. You must be an admirer of Michelle Obama in that regard .

Hell, I'm a big critic of a lot of what the US does and does not do in terms of falling short of our ideals, and even I wanted to clap back at TW calling the US a shit-hole country (although I would take that term if it were coming from someone from a country Trump insulted with that term). We gotta a LOT of problems, but even with the dumpster fire we have in the oval office, the US still has a lot going for it. Calling is the worst country in the world is obviously just a jab at jingoistic "patriots" but its still not something I like to hear from an outsider. And I thought all Canadians were polite. Thanks TW for breaking me of my stereotypes!

I hate many of Canada's laws, and attitudes about those laws equally with American laws. I actually despise Canadians who proclaim "We're not as bad as Americans", as I think it's a copout to avoid actual discussion.

But I'm sick of Americans going on and on about the constitution when it's produced such a visibly flawed country. Sorry it offends you. I know Americans and Canadians alike get very touchy when you insult their country, so I should have known my post would insult just about everybody. It was in poor taste. My point was to show how your country makes others feel, the language of hatred that makes you feel ashamed. I think it's shameful that Americans (and Canadians) are so blindly patriotic, while also being the driving factor of much of the world's problems.

Sorry again for the offense though. My delivery was ill-advised.

[Sour Masher]

I hate many of Canada's laws, and attitudes about those laws equally with American laws. I actually despise Canadians who proclaim "We're not as bad as Americans", as I think it's a copout to avoid actual discussion.

But I'm sick of Americans going on and on about the constitution when it's produced such a visibly flawed country. Sorry it offends you. I know Americans and Canadians alike get very touchy when you insult their country, so I should have known my post would insult just about everybody. It was in poor taste. My point was to show how your country makes others feel, the language of hatred that makes you feel ashamed. I think it's shameful that Americans (and Canadians) are so blindly patriotic, while also being the driving factor of much of the world's problems.

Sorry again for the offense though. My delivery was ill-advised.

I'm not offended mi amigo. I just don't think your rhetorical decisions are the best in trying to change minds (although, to be fair, no matter how you present your argument, you and baldgriff ain't gonna agree). I do think it is wrong-headed to paint any country with such a broad brush (I was being tongue and cheek in throwing out the polite Canadian stereotype). I personally do not consider our consto a sacred text at all, and I agree it has flaws. One great thing about it is that our system allows us to amend it to correct those flaws. The real problem is that the people, as a whole, don't always do that the way they should, when they should.

I also recognize that even though current leadership in our country does not represent me as an American at all, I gotta take the heat from the fair criticism it gets from other countries. That doesn't change the feeling of annoyance when others assume we are a monolithic country--all cowboy hat wearing, gun toting yosamate sam's shouting U-S-A!

I have to play both sides--critic of my country, and defender of it--a lot, because my wife is from Jamaica. I talk with her parents all the time, and I agree with them politically almost across the board. I only get annoyed when it becomes clear they are suggesting America is somehow special in its brokenness. It isn't. Most of the problems in America are common all over. I mean, let's critique the hell out of our country, and try to make it better, but let's not pretend it is worse than almost any other country. Hell, gun violence, political corruption, inequality, health care issues, they are all way worse in Jamaica than here.

I'm not saying that to make it a competition or to defend out deficits, but it just comes off different if someone is critical because they want to make a place better, vs someone who is critical because they think they ARE better.

Your criticisms of our admitted flaws don't come across as coming from a place of love and caring about making us a better country, is, I guess what I'm getting at (at least not in the few frustrated posts to baldgriff). It comes more across like, "you all suck, I'm super glad I live in a better country...sucks to be you, losers!" That isn't the best way to get folks to agree with you, even when you are making valid points.

[Gregg]

Would you rather be a victim of violent crime in a city overrun with knives, or with guns?

This is such next-level stupidity, this conversation you continually insist on having.

No it is not.

Additionally the responses that you have made in this post are representative of the kind of responses that have caused some to leave here or just stop participating.

[Gregg]

Just pointing out your own words for you, with emphasis. If you stand by this ludicrous statement, cool. You've said all that needs to be said.

Why is this ludicrous? It is a good choice to live where there is less violent crime.

Your gun bias is clouding your judgement and polluting the discussion.

Do you think your freedom to carry sharp objects should be taken away for the overall safety of others?

[Gregg]

How about her right to abort her unwanted fetus? That's being done throughout our country.

Outlawing knives makes abortions much more difficult.

[Gregg]

You've made this point before, but never really responded to the counter claim that, unlike other "tools" that have other practical functions, a gun's function is to kill. I can use a pair of scissors to cut paper or a knife to cut through boxes. What else am I using a gun for besides to shoot someone or threaten to shoot someone? Whether for aggressive or defensive purposes, the end result is the same--guns are used to kill.

The sport of hunting( formally needed to supply food for the family). The sport of trap shooting. The sport of target shooting. Antique gun collecting (both for beauty and history). Home protection (Hopefully never having to use it, but allowing the trained owner to feel a sense of security behind his own locked doors).

[Sour Masher]

The sport of hunting( formally needed to supply food for the family). The sport of trap shooting. The sport of target shooting. Antique gun collecting (both for beauty and history). Home protection (Hopefully never having to use it, but allowing the trained owner to feel a sense of security behind his own locked doors).

As I said, the sports you mention do not need hand guns, high capacity ammo, bump stocks, and the like. These activities are not why we have more guns than people in this country, and they are not why so many are against any sort of regulations, or even background checks and mandatory training and licencing.

Many people do not see guns rationally. I know most people do, but many fetishize them, make them sacred objects that must be defended even above human life. I just don't know how that fringe minority gets enough more reasonable people so afraid of a slippery slope that they refuse rational measures to restrict access to guns and accessories that seem purposefully designed to kill people, even from those with a history of mental illness or violence.

[baldgriff]

Isnt it possible that people can shoot guns recreationally, just for fun, just to destroy cans, fruit, old cars, or whatever other target that they choose to shoot up. Recreational shooting is fun for a number of folks and for those purposes it may be fun to shoot as many bullets as you can just for fun. As long as they are doing it safely, why do we care that they have a pistol grip or a 25 round magazine?

I have attempted to demonstrate to you in another thread that guns are way more often used correctly and do not kill people. Unfortunately, that fact seems to fall on deaf ears or ears that just dont care.

[The Feral Slasher]

I have attempted to demonstrate to you in another thread that guns are way more often used correctly and do not kill people. Unfortunately, that fact seems to fall on deaf ears or ears that just dont care.

I think everyone agrees with that. Ultimately, some people just conclude that the cost in lives is not justified by the benefits. I'm sure you have a point at which you would say there are too many deaths and agree that something should be done.

[Sour Masher]

I think everyone agrees with that. Ultimately, some people just conclude that the cost in lives is not justified by the benefits. I'm sure you have a point at which you would say there are too many deaths and agree that something should be done.

Yes, this. And, again, what you are talking about is defending weapons and add ons that dont really aid with hunting or protection from home Invaders (why do you need high capacity magazines for either of those things?). So the equation isn't what you laid out before here. You are defending allowing for types of guns and adds ons that just give ore choices to people for recreational shooting, and weighing that against the increased loss of human life these cause. A little more fun for a millions vs the death of just one is an easy choice for me.

[baldgriff]

Actually I am not defending the weapons...

I am defending the right the we have been granted by our government to keep and bear arms. There is a large difference here. I dont view this as a little more fun for millions. I view this as retaining rights for everyone. Some choose to exercise their right and others choose not too. The arguments made against the 2nd amendment are always around safety and how dangerous the gun is.

In past threads:
I have shown that guns are safer than is commonly believed by using statistical data.
I have shown that banning semi-automatic rifles isnt a real solution, because they are not responsible for even close to half of the gun deaths.
I have also shown that hand guns are used as frequently if not more frequently in "mass shootings" than the scary "assault weapon"
I have used statistical data and facts to support my contentions.

I have done so in an attempt to show that guns are not the problem - but that the actions of people are. London is now showing us that if you take the guns completely away, people will find some other means or tool to use in order to hurt, maim or kill others.