Conservatives v. Liberals

[ironfist]

It doesn't help that the President openly calls anything that disagrees with him "fake news" so basically most Trump backers have been trained to immediately disregard anything that paints him in a bad light. I think there is a difference between "conservatives" and "Trump conservatives" as I have some friends who identify as conservative but don't fall for all the nonsense. That being said, I have seen many of those who were once more thoughtful about what is posted retreat to posting fake memes. The constant attacks from the anti-Trump crowd may have pushed them in that direction though.

[DMT]

I'll be even more brief than DMT: Bullshit.

Come on dude, just look at the percentages of Republicans who think the Russian investigation is just a witch hunt, despite all of our intelligence services confirming Russian interference.

[Fresno Bob]

what's Facebook?

[The Feral Slasher]

Come on dude, just look at the percentages of Republicans who think the Russian investigation is just a witch hunt, despite all of our intelligence services confirming Russian interference.

Conversely, aren't there a lot of people who believe Donald Trump is a Russian puppet ? What is the evidence for that ?

[Bernie Brewer]

It doesn't help that the President openly calls anything that disagrees with him "fake news" so basically most Trump backers have been trained to immediately disregard anything that paints him in a bad light. I think there is a difference between "conservatives" and "Trump conservatives" as I have some friends who identify as conservative but don't fall for all the nonsense. That being said, I have seen many of those who were once more thoughtful about what is posted retreat to posting fake memes. The constant attacks from the anti-Trump crowd may have pushed them in that direction though.

This is a very reasonable post.

[DMT]

Conversely, aren't there a lot of people who believe Donald Trump is a Russian puppet ? What is the evidence for that ?

Yes, there are those people, but the numbers aren't even close.

[The Feral Slasher]

Yes, there are those people, but the numbers aren't even close.

I've never really looked. Posters on this board who assert he is a puppet don't usually get challenged. I've seen a fair number of MSNBC types state it. Maybe people don't really believe it but are happy to let others float the idea since it is critical of Trump.

[Hornsby]

I've never really looked. Posters on this board who assert he is a puppet don't usually get challenged. I've seen a fair number of MSNBC types state it. Maybe people don't really believe it but are happy to let others float the idea since it is critical of Trump.

I think that it comes from his actions...or rather, inactions. Congress overwhelmingly passed sanctions against Russia, a real bipartisan effort, and the President grudgingly signed it, but refused to actually impose those sanctions. The other day his advisors specifically told him in no uncertain terms: DO NOT CONGRATULATE!: Putin after he "won" re-election. Trump of course called Putin to...congratulate him. I think that there's more anecdotal evidence than actual evidence at this point, but it certainly leads to speculation.

[The Feral Slasher]

I think that it comes from his actions...or rather, inactions. Congress overwhelmingly passed sanctions against Russia, a real bipartisan effort, and the President grudgingly signed it, but refused to actually impose those sanctions. The other day his advisors specifically told him in no uncertain terms: O NOT CONGRATULATE!: Putin after he "won" re-election. Trump of course called Putin to...congratulate him. I think that there's more anecdotal evidence than actual evidence at this point, but it certainly leads to speculation.

He was called a puppet long before any of those events. Again, without any evidence. Did Putin make Donald Trump increase our military budget to record levels ? That seems counterproductive. What else did he make Trump do ? I've seen a lot of strange claims. Anyway, that's not to say that the investigation wont turn something up, but at this point it's all speculation as you say above.

[Hornsby]

He was called a puppet long before any of those events. Again, without any evidence. Did Putin make Donald Trump increase our military budget to record levels ? That seems counterproductive. What else did he make Trump do ? I've seen a lot of strange claims. Anyway, that's not to say that the investigation wont turn something up, but at this point it's all speculation as you say above.

Lots of smoke prior to the election as well. Rumors of ties to Russia and Putin himself. Staffers and campaign people with direct ties to various different Russian misbehaviors. Just about every Intelligence agency in the free world saying that Russian Interference in the US elections was a fact. Trump denies and ridicules his own Intelligence people, and only recently acknowledges that there was indeed Russian interference, but certainly NOT on his behalf...The Mueller investigation.

Again, time will show what's true and what's not, but I think that there's enough here to show why people believe that Trump is a Russian puppet.

[The Feral Slasher]

Lots of smoke prior to the election as well. Rumors of ties to Russia and Putin himself. Staffers and campaign people with direct ties to various different Russian misbehaviors. Just about every Intelligence agency in the free world saying that Russian Interference in the US elections was a fact. Trump denies and ridicules his own Intelligence people, and only recently acknowledges that there was indeed Russian interference, but certainly NOT on his behalf...The Mueller investigation.

Again, time will show what's true and what's not, but I think that there's enough here to show why people believe that Trump is a Russian puppet.

Right, so there's lots of reasons to be suspicious, just like there were lots of reasons to be suspicious about Hillary Clinton. But guilt and innocence are largely judged based on tribal loyalty, not on facts.

[Hornsby]

Right, so there's lots of reasons to be suspicious, just like there were lots of reasons to be suspicious about Hillary Clinton. But guilt and innocence are largely judged based on tribal loyalty, not on facts.

Agreed, which is kind of the point of this thread. But there just wasn't anything to point at any Hillary shenanigans...

[The Feral Slasher]

Agreed, which is kind of the point of this thread. But there just wasn't anything to point at any Hillary shenanigans...

Except the point was that it was the republicans/righties were much worse. Which may be true, but there are plenty of people on both sides who believe stuff because it fits their narrative, not because it is based on fact.

[chancellor]

Come on dude, just look at the percentages of Republicans who think the Russian investigation is just a witch hunt, despite all of our intelligence services confirming Russian interference.

I'm game.

Who's the best known individual that believes the 9/11 plane bombings were a hoax? That would be the psycho-lefty, Rosie O'Donnell. Not only does she say this was a hoax, she has had a friggin' seat as a host on a significant show, The View.

Who is the best known individual who spread the disastereous belief that vaccines cause autism? Oooooh, that'd be another psycho-lefty, and, interestingly enough, another past View host, Jenny McCarthy. Shall we debate how deleterious this set of beliefs has been to childhood and adult health in the United States? Sure, there's those on the right who hold similar views, but NONE of them have had a premier slot on a major TV station as a host on a major afternoon talk show.

And below, I will quote from The New Republic, hardly a bastion of right-wing thought:

In recent months, the left has begun to rival Trump himself as an incubator for sinister musings and crackpot accusations. And like Trump, left-wing conspiracists are using Twitter to gestate and market-test their most outlandish forms of political insanity.

Long quarantined in the furthest corners of the internet, these left-wing rantings have begun to find their way into mainstream political discourse. In March, Louise Mensch was inexplicably given space on the New York Times op-ed page to trumpet her theories, rattling off a list of Russian operatives she believed should be called to testify before Congress—a list that included Peter Thiel and Mark Zuckerberg.

I'd LOL that, but space on the Grey Lady can not be ignored. That's essentially mainstream liberal thought at that point.

In April, MSNBC’s Laurence O’Donnell echoed a Palmer Report theory that Syria’s chemical weapon attack had been orchestrated by the Russian government, so that Trump could appear to distance himself from Putin. (Like a true conspiracy theorist, O’Donnell offered no proof for the claim, insisting instead that “you won’t hear ... proof that the scenario I’ve just outlined is impossible.”)

OK, I'll grant that MSNBC is a fringe, loony left TV station with minimal coverage. But at one time, O'Donnell was not a kook.

On May 10, Senator Ed Markey told CNN that “a grand jury has been empaneled up in New York” to investigate Russian meddling in the election

Seriously? LULZ.

Even Chris Cilizza, about the most liberal, anti-Trump slanted major station reporter out there, has an article titled "Donald Trump is turning liberals into conspiracy theorists". Linky here: https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/politics/trump-liberals/

While I'm not a Cilizza fan, at least he debunks four of the really, really, stupid-ass lefty conspiracy theories of late.

And that summary is basically 15 minutes of work. Sure, there's right-wing nut cases out there. But, jeebus, dude, pull the plank out of your own eye before ripping the specks out of ours.

[The Feral Slasher]

I'm game.

Who's the best known individual that believes the 9/11 plane bombings were a hoax? That would be the psycho-lefty, Rosie O'Donnell. Not only does she say this was a hoax, she has had a friggin' seat as a host on a significant show, The View.

Who is the best known individual who spread the disastereous belief that vaccines cause autism? Oooooh, that'd be another psycho-lefty, and, interestingly enough, another past View host, Jenny McCarthy. Shall we debate how deleterious this set of beliefs has been to childhood and adult health in the United States? Sure, there's those on the right who hold similar views, but NONE of them have had a premier slot on a major TV station as a host on a major afternoon talk show.

And below, I will quote from The New Republic, hardly a bastion of right-wing thought:





I'd LOL that, but space on the Grey Lady can not be ignored. That's essentially mainstream liberal thought at that point.



OK, I'll grant that MSNBC is a fringe, loony left TV station with minimal coverage. But at one time, O'Donnell was not a kook.



Seriously? LULZ.

Even Chris Cilizza, about the most liberal, anti-Trump slanted major station reporter out there, has an article titled "Donald Trump is turning liberals into conspiracy theorists". Linky here: https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/politics/trump-liberals/

While I'm not a Cilizza fan, at least he debunks four of the really, really, stupid-ass lefty conspiracy theories of late.

And that summary is basically 15 minutes of work. Sure, there's right-wing nut cases out there. But, jeebus, dude, pull the plank out of your own eye before ripping the specks out of ours.

The only comment I have is that the four stupid lefty conspiracy theories were ones I've never heard of. Don't think anyone here has ever mentioned them or that they have widespread belief amongst the left. Louise Mensch, Eric Garland, Joy Reid, Rachel Maddow, however...