'16 Democratic Nomination Thread

[baldgriff]

You've said that before and politics aside, I have a hard time seeing how he's going to get to 270 EV. What states do you believe are going to flip? Looking at the map, the only place where he might be able to make some inroads would be the Rust Belt--Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin---maybe some disaffected working class Democrats get behind his trade policies but I think it is very unlikely he can actually flip any of those states. It's a tough road for any GOP candidate, let alone one who does a pretty fair job of alienating minorities and women.

See below clip:

[Hodor]

Here it is in a nutshell.

Hillary is having a hell of a time shaking a non Democrat, declared socialist, no plan having Sanders and if not for the system wouldn't be the people's choice to run against Trump.

The Bernie or bust movement is real and growing every time something like happened in Nevada goes down.


This makes her vulnerable vs Trump, very vulnerable.

If she doesn't get Bernie's endorsement she is screwed.

Now is this behavior irrational, juvenile or sour grapes?

Yes it probably is.

But had Clinton stepped above the conventional political tact and ran a upstanding race and demand her campaigners do the same, she wouldn't be facing this problem she is going forward.

Hell if she had, even I might be able to hold my nose and vote for her.

Hillary has made her bed and Trump is going to kick her and her crumbs out of it.

[chancellor]

Oh, I don't think your points are juvenile at all. I think she might survive no endorsement from Sanders, though it's far from certain. She'd be toast if he runs third party.

I think he'll endorse her, but only after the convention is settled. But I'm certainly not going to put a six-month ban bet on it, if you get my drift.

[Lucky]

I think people are forgetting that Hillary won Nevada by over five (5) points. Bernie's supporters were trying to get more than their share of delegates, and got mad when it didn't happen.

Cenk? What a wanker.

[baldgriff]

A good GOP candidate would likely lose the election. Donald Trump isn't a good anything, much less a good candidate.

Isnt this what the RNC stated for months - until he won their nomination.

My understanding is that polls indicate that Sanders outperforms HRC against Trump. HRC's popularity and approval numbers are abysmal and dont seem to be getting any better.

This election cycle is horrid!

[Hornsby]

Did you watch the video I posted?? The Rolling Stone article you posted seems to be blaming this all on Sander's supporters. It does not speak at all to what the cause was - which was the DNC making sure (even by cheating) HRC gets as many delegates as possible. The outcome may not have been much different in the end, but the method by which the DNC accomplished this was really pretty crappy.

When the Chair of the Convention announces that in a voice vote her ruling can not be overturned or questioned - and then proceeds to announce HRC's camp as the winner - well the DNC is doing a great job disenfranchising a whole group of voters in a general election.

Unfortunately in this case - "cheating is winning" - and speaks to the ethics the DNC is using to push HRC.

No, I did not. I don't have 18 minutes to spare for something I can find credible sources like WAPO, Politico, and the like. I chose Rolling stone, because I thought that it would likely be the most progressive, therefore somewhat aligned with the Sanders viewpoint. The fact that all of the outlets that I read/saw had essentially the same viewpoint, is enough for me. Brian also told me what I needed to know from a credible source on the ground. You have to play by the rules as they're laid out. You can't change them in the middle of the game, that goes for either side.

[baldgriff]

No, I did not. I don't have 18 minutes to spare for something I can find credible sources like WAPO, Politico, and the like. I chose Rolling stone, because I thought that it would likely be the most progressive, therefore somewhat aligned with the Sanders viewpoint. The fact that all of the outlets that I read/saw had essentially the same viewpoint, is enough for me. Brian also told me what I needed to know from a credible source on the ground. You have to play by the rules as they're laid out. You can't change them in the middle of the game, that goes for either side.

I agree that you have to play by the rules - the issue here apparently came about because there was a vote being taken on whether to adopt this years "temporary rules" as the rules going forward.

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/may/14/at-democratic-convention-in-las-vegas-rules-divide/

"Sanders and Clinton supporters were divided over a vote to adopt a set of temporary convention rules as the permanent rules, with the former largely opposing them and the latter supporting them in a voice vote of the convention called by Lange."

Suffice to say - the voice vote was a sham.

[Hodor]

I am getting tired of hearing Bernie, who still remains my preferred candidate, as the "people's choice" despite getting his fucking ass handed to him - votes, delegates, pretty much every measurable way. Oh, but it's a conspiracy!!!! Puhleeze. Spare me. Bernie has done a good job but this primary has been well decided for a long time now. The preferred choice of millions of Democrats, MILLIONS (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...ote_count.html) more than Bernie Sanders, is Hillary Clinton, even if that hurts your feelings. And given the enormous head start she will have in electoral votes nothing short of a major scandal (not outside the realm of possibility with a Clinton, certainly) is going to lose her this election. Bernie Sanders' endorsement (or not) is irrelevant. A good GOP candidate would likely lose the election. Donald Trump isn't a good anything, much less a good candidate.

I can see how you would think that and using the current system he is getting hammered, but in an open election he'd beat her. Just like he is in the national polls.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a broken system which Hillary is utilizing best.

And yes, her campaign and the dnc have overstepped in her favor on more than a few occasions which have already been documented on this site.

[Hodor]

I think people are forgetting that Hillary won Nevada by over five (5) points. Bernie's supporters were trying to get more than their share of delegates, and got mad when it didn't happen.

Cenk? What a wanker.

That isn't true, I was there you weren't.

Unless you're implying that I am not being honest.

Edit.. Not at the state convention, but the same shit went down at both the original caucus and county convention.

[Hornsby]

I can see how you would think that and using the current system he is getting hammered, but in an open election he'd beat her. Just like he is in the national polls.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a broken system which Hillary is utilizing best.

And yes, her campaign and the dnc have overstepped in her favor on more than a few occasions which have already been documented on this site.

It's a total red herring to say that BS would beat HRC, it has nothing to do with anything. She's less than 100 delegates short of clinching the nomination, and yet Sanders continues to insist that he can win. He can't. There's no conceivable path to victory for his campaign. And now he's in jeopardy of losing the one important thing that he accomplished, moving the party further to the left. If he REALLY cares about his agenda, both in the near future, and as a US Senator, he needs to pull back and support the candidate, which is HRC.

Much of the recent Trump move in the polls is attributable to a "convention" bounce, it almost always happens, and HRC will get hers as well. But some of it is attributable the the constant attacks from Bernie and his supporters, not to mention a GOP crossover to Sanders in hopes of damaging Clinton. In 2008, Clinton was much closer to Obama at this point, but she saw what was happening and stopped the attacks from her campaign on the then future President. This is something that Bernie needs to do now, both for the future of this country, and his own future...unless he plans to change parties and caucus with the GOP when he goes back to the Senate.

[gcstomp]

As Sanders is a life long Independent I would think that is what he would go back to, where he has a 86% approval rating in his home state, he is in zero danger of losing his position.

[GwynnInTheHall]

This is Hilarious.


The two biggest HRC supporters on the site can't agree if Sanders is needed for Hillary to win or not.

I guess we'll see won't we?

Sanders doesn't need the Democratic Party to move agenda, it's not THEIR agenda or he'd be their candidate and not Hillary.'

Why the hell would Bernie do ANYTHING for Hillary or the Party? they basically have done everything they can to run him out.

But I agree he CAN'T win the Democratic Nomination, but that wasn't the damn point.

He'd beat her and Trump in a head to head everyone vote's situation.

But again, you're right--that means nothing.

What DOES mean something is how Sanders supporters will react and none of you whom support HRC have a fucking clue.

The one thing Sanders supporters hate more than Hillary, and the hate, Hate, HATE her, is not Trump--It's the system.

This election have only inflamed their loathing.

Why would they do anything to maintain the status quo? This, in their minds, is a revolution--they'd rather watch it burn than allow it to go on as is.

Now not ALL Sanders supporters feel this way, but a great majority do.

At best HRC will get half of their support and that's ONLY if Bernie endorses her.

Is that irrational, yeah probably, but anyone seeking significant change is always considered irrational by those seeking to keep things as is.

Bernie owes NOTHING to the DNC or Hillary.


Keep overestimating Hillary and underestimating Bernie's impact and Trumps ability to bring out the worst in everyone.

[Hornsby]

I'll try to address the salient points as I see them...

This is Hilarious.


The two biggest HRC supporters on the site can't agree if Sanders is needed for Hillary to win or not.

I guess we'll see won't we? In my opinion, he's not needed...all that he needs to do is do no harm. And yet it's essentially two on one now with Trump and Sanders both attacking HRC.

Sanders doesn't need the Democratic Party to move agenda, it's not THEIR agenda or he'd be their candidate and not Hillary.' His meme is to go progressive, move the party further left, and yes, he needs a major party to do that, which is why he's running as a Big D Democrat, and not as a Democratic Socialist, which has been his choice for years.

Why the hell would Bernie do ANYTHING for Hillary or the Party? they basically have done everything they can to run him out. So that he can actually have a SAY in the party platform, and have voting colleagues once he gets back to the Senate. If he screws the party out of the Presidency and the down ballot seats, they'll freeze any proposals that he has until he retires or dies.

But I agree he CAN'T win the Democratic Nomination, but that wasn't the damn point.

He'd beat her and Trump in a head to head everyone vote's situation. That's your opinion, nothing more.

But again, you're right--that means nothing.

What DOES mean something is how Sanders supporters will react and none of you whom support HRC have a fucking clue. I assume that they'll take their ball and go home and not vote. Some may actually vote for Trump, but not many, in my estimation.

The one thing Sanders supporters hate more than Hillary, and the hate, Hate, HATE her, is not Trump--It's the system.

This election have only inflamed their loathing. But enough to actually get off the couch to do something like vote for Trump? It's a lot easier to get excited about a positive than it is about a negative.

Why would they do anything to maintain the status quo? This, in their minds, is a revolution--they'd rather watch it burn than allow it to go on as is.

Now not ALL Sanders supporters feel this way, but a great majority do.

At best HRC will get half of their support and that's ONLY if Bernie endorses her.

Is that irrational, yeah probably, but anyone seeking significant change is always considered irrational by those seeking to keep things as is.

Bernie owes NOTHING to the DNC or Hillary. And yet, he runs under their umbrella...


Keep overestimating Hillary and underestimating Bernie's impact and Trumps ability to bring out the worst in everyone. You may be right...we will see.

[TranaGreg]

The one thing Sanders supporters hate more than Hillary, and the hate, Hate, HATE her, is not Trump--It's the system.

This wildcard, combined with the general acceptance that seems to be settling in amongst the GOP mainliners, leave me starting to seriously consider what a Trump presidency might actually look like. Maybe an idea for another thread.

[DMT]

Why would they do anything to maintain the status quo? This, in their minds, is a revolution--they'd rather watch it burn than allow it to go on as is.

Now not ALL Sanders supporters feel this way, but a great majority do.

Yet you're the only one on this site of many Sanders supporters who feel this way.