Former Guy Donald Trump

[The Feral Slasher]

Do you actually think people in the America will lose their freedom to worship. Or that is a reasonable concern? This seems like a conspiracy theory to me. If people actually believe this it explains a lot of the issues are country has, because it is not based in reality at all.

EDIT: actually your comment explains a lot. Anyone who thinks that Christians will lose their freedom to worship in America is someone who is not grounded in reality.

Maybe Obama converted Biden to Islam and it is a real concern.

[GwynnInTheHall]

let me be clear.

I was responding to the "Christian" relatives who wrote that letter to Kinzinger.

It wasn't a trap or a trick. I wasn't trying to brand anyone anything.

I don not believe you can truly call yourself a Christian and support or vote for a person like Trump. Voting for and/or supporting means, to me, that you either share that persons morality and values or their morality/values/ethics or the lack there of are not deal breakers for you.

Again, from my perspective, you either believe in and practice Christianity or you do not. The whole--I'm a failed being caveat to me is one of the reasons i do not believe in religion. Do the right thing or don't--we all know better. Own it when you fuck up and own it when you're ok enough to vote for a man like Trump--Just say it--I don't care about X as much as I care about Y. or DON'T VOTE.

Selective morality is not morality whatsoever.

Kinzingers relatives are NOT Christians from my perspective.

Nor is anyone who voted for Trump in 2020

I don't believe Jesus would approve of Trump, nor be pleased with anyone's willful support of him knowing what we know of him today.

Just my perspective, but the equivocation I hear from Trump Christians is yet another reason I think the whole religion thing is bullshit.

I don't intend to offend and apologize if I have.

[Bene Futuis]

Um, guys - Trump tear gassed the shit out of private citizens just so he could hold up an upside down Bible for a photo op. If that ain't true Christianity then I don't know what is.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Um, guys - Trump tear gassed the shit out of private citizens just so he could hold up an upside down Bible for a photo op. If that ain't true Christianity then I don't know what is.

Biden's gonna hurt God, so which side do you wanna be on, man?

[Kevin Seitzer]

It makes me sad how gullible so many Christians in America have demonstrated themselves to be over the last four years. It was a long process getting there and probably isn't going to be quickly changed, but it still deeply saddens me. I don't think many of them are consciously choosing to be on the side of evil, but nonetheless they have ended up there, and they think they're doing right while they're in fact doing evil. It's not just about how they vote. That is just a symptom of a much deeper problem of allegiances, and theology, and worldviews that has gotten badly out of whack.

[Bene Futuis]

Biden's gonna hurt God, so which side do you wanna be on, man?

Trump literally said "there will be no god" if Biden were to get elected. He also said Biden is "against God" and would "hurt God" and "hurt the Bible" if elected.


Luckily we all know that Republicans don't take his stupid lies literally and, like, storm the Capitol or whatever.

[Sour Masher]

Same way I could be a Christian and support Clinton. Or Biden. Or Bush. Or LBJ. Or any other president. To say that Trump's moral failings are greater than, say, LBJ's - who approved actions that burned, maimed, and killed thousands of innocent civilians in Vietnam - are questionable at best both morally and scripturally. Who anyone votes for does not reflect their faith.

I am dumbfounded that anyone of faith would make this last claim. In fact, I suspect I am misunderstanding you here. If you are saying that one's faith does not inform one's vote, I'd contend that should absolutely not be true. To be of a faith, to me, means that it must inform every aspect of one's life, and inform every decision one makes, including how one votes. Of course, when presented with limited choices, it is likely no candidate will fully embody the ideals of one's faith, or govern in a way in keeping with it. But assessing which candidate embodies the tenants of one's faith better, and which person will govern in keeping with those tenants absolutely should, and I believe does, inform the votes of any true believers.

I also believe that the tenants of one's faith should supersede any and all other groups one belongs to. To be a Christian, therefore, takes precedence over being an American. I'd go a step further to suggest that in treating the flag of a country as a sacred symbol is a form of idolatry. One can revere it, but the way the American flag is cherished over actual human lives by many in this country seems in contradiction of the commandments. I don't recall seeing anywhere in the 10 commandments to love thy country's flag more than thy neighbor, or put national borders on who is your neighbor. If kneeling before a flag, or burning a million of them, led to the salvation of one soul, by helping him see they he should love his neighbor as himself, and hear that neighbors cries for help, and helping, those actions should be embraced by all Christians. (Whether protests against the American flag actually accomplish that is another matter).

Of course, this is an age old issue of separation of powers that the church and state has contended with. But if you believe in a religion that outlines how you should live your life and that your actions have eternal consequences, it is absurd to me that anyone would ever decide to act in any way that jeopardizes one's eternal soul. One's vote should absolutely reflect one's faith.

[Gregg]

let me be clear.

I was responding to the "Christian" relatives who wrote that letter to Kinzinger.

It wasn't a trap or a trick. I wasn't trying to brand anyone anything.

I don not believe you can truly call yourself a Christian and support or vote for a person like Trump. Voting for and/or supporting means, to me, that you either share that persons morality and values or their morality/values/ethics or the lack there of are not deal breakers for you.

Again, from my perspective, you either believe in and practice Christianity or you do not. The whole--I'm a failed being caveat to me is one of the reasons i do not believe in religion. Do the right thing or don't--we all know better. Own it when you fuck up and own it when you're ok enough to vote for a man like Trump--Just say it--I don't care about X as much as I care about Y. or DON'T VOTE.

Selective morality is not morality whatsoever.

Kinzingers relatives are NOT Christians from my perspective.

Nor is anyone who voted for Trump in 2020

I don't believe Jesus would approve of Trump, nor be pleased with anyone's willful support of him knowing what we know of him today.

Just my perspective, but the equivocation I hear from Trump Christians is yet another reason I think the whole religion thing is bullshit.

I don't intend to offend and apologize if I have.

If I misunderstood your intentions I am sorry.

I can't speak for others but I was not offended and no need to apologize to me.

What would true Christian politics look like? Certainly not what we have now.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I think a lot of Christians would say they don't like how politics looks. A lot of Americans, Christian or not, would say that.

But I think leaving it there fails to address how much the current political landscape in America is what it is because of failings of white evangelical Christianity over the last several decades:
- support for anti-intellectualism, starting with denial of evolution but extending to things like denying the reality of climate change and distrust of scientific experts
- a dispensationalist eschatology that promotes thinking of heaven as other-worldly and leading to a lack of care for the environment and for social justice causes
- becoming bedfellows with white supremacists and racists for the sake of political power and also for the sake of avoiding painful look at how the American church, especially the Southern Baptists, enabled and supported racism and Jim Crow in the South
- extensive intertwining of patriotism and Christianity to the extent that many American Christians don't actually see the difference between the two and the horrible compromise of Christian principles that has resulted - e.g. "Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.... Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
- a twisted focus on sexual issues (e.g., abortion, homosexuality) that is rightly concerned with the dignity of the human person and the sacredness of the body but has become so twisted that it's actually accomplishing the opposite of what it should be (it's alienating people and causing suffering rather than lifting people up and affirming their dignity) - in some cases though not all this is actually used as a means for men to keep power over women, and the church as a whole has done a horrible job of recognizing that, let alone dealing with it as the serious issue it is

These errors have helped to promote an irrational fearful and defensive mindset that American Christians are losing their freedom of religion.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Thought I'd leave this here as we all know Ted is the next POTUS 2024!!

Ted Cruz
@tedcruz
·
Aug 19, 2020
California is now unable to perform even basic functions of civilization, like having reliable electricity.

Biden/Harris/AOC want to make CA’s failed energy policy the standard nationwide.

Hope you don’t like air conditioning!

Cruz should be fine, he's used to eating his own words.

[madducks]

Has there ever been a person thrown under the bus worse than Pence? I mean, Pence certainly did his share to promote the Big Lie, but he did his job and was scapegoated by the motherf'er and his minions.

Mitch McConnell is the latest Trump enabler to get thrown under the bus by Defendant Don.

"Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again," Trump said in the statement. "He will never do what needs to be done, or what is right for our Country. Where necessary and appropriate, I will back primary rivals who espouse Making America Great Again and our policy of America First. We want brilliant, strong, thoughtful, and compassionate leadership."

[Redbirds Fan]

I think a lot of Christians would say they don't like how politics looks. A lot of Americans, Christian or not, would say that.

But I think leaving it there fails to address how much the current political landscape in America is what it is because of failings of white evangelical Christianity over the last several decades:
- support for anti-intellectualism, starting with denial of evolution but extending to things like denying the reality of climate change and distrust of scientific experts
- a dispensationalist eschatology that promotes thinking of heaven as other-worldly and leading to a lack of care for the environment and for social justice causes
- becoming bedfellows with white supremacists and racists for the sake of political power and also for the sake of avoiding painful look at how the American church, especially the Southern Baptists, enabled and supported racism and Jim Crow in the South
- extensive intertwining of patriotism and Christianity to the extent that many American Christians don't actually see the difference between the two and the horrible compromise of Christian principles that has resulted - e.g. "Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.... Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
- a twisted focus on sexual issues (e.g., abortion, homosexuality) that is rightly concerned with the dignity of the human person and the sacredness of the body but has become so twisted that it's actually accomplishing the opposite of what it should be (it's alienating people and causing suffering rather than lifting people up and affirming their dignity) - in some cases though not all this is actually used as a means for men to keep power over women, and the church as a whole has done a horrible job of recognizing that, let alone dealing with it as the serious issue it is

These errors have helped to promote an irrational fearful and defensive mindset that American Christians are losing their freedom of religion.

Powerful post.

[The Feral Slasher]

Trump literally said "there will be no god" if Biden were to get elected. He also said Biden is "against God" and would "hurt God" and "hurt the Bible" if elected.


Luckily we all know that Republicans don't take his stupid lies literally and, like, storm the Capitol or whatever.

and no Christmas, right? Joe is going to cancel Christmas !

[chancellor]

I am dumbfounded that anyone of faith would make this last claim. In fact, I suspect I am misunderstanding you here. If you are saying that one's faith does not inform one's vote, I'd contend that should absolutely not be true. To be of a faith, to me, means that it must inform every aspect of one's life, and inform every decision one makes, including how one votes.

"Reflect" and "Inform" are two wholly different verbs. For example, two of similar belief sets can be informed by their faith to vote a certain way that can be diametrically opposed, but that does not reflect their faith. I.e, a Christian - or Muslim, or Jew - can vote in any given manner without being more or less of a Christian, Muslim or Jew by their choice.

But assessing which candidate embodies the tenants of one's faith better, and which person will govern in keeping with those tenants

The former does not necessarily align with the latter, nor vice versa. Jimmy Carter is a fine man and Christian, but was a blazing incompetent as a president. He may have been a fine man, and embodied the tenets of my faith more closely than Reagan, but I had no issue pulling the lever for Reagan in 1980.

But if you believe in a religion that outlines how you should live your life and that your actions have eternal consequences, it is absurd to me that anyone would ever decide to act in any way that jeopardizes one's eternal soul.

Alas, I'd never dream that how an individual voted would jeopardize their eternal soul. Nor am I aware of any Christian faith that would be able to support such a claim scripturally.

[revo]

Thought I'd leave this here as we all know Ted is the next POTUS 2024!!

Ted Cruz
@tedcruz
·
Aug 19, 2020
California is now unable to perform even basic functions of civilization, like having reliable electricity.

Biden/Harris/AOC want to make CA’s failed energy policy the standard nationwide.

Hope you don’t like air conditioning!

Cruz should be fine, he's used to eating his own words.

Biden should have demanded fealty, or at least berated Texans for their shoddily run electric grid or poor highway salting before giving the state the emergency funds it requested.