Election 2020

[GwynnInTheHall]

CNN is definitely not an arm of the DNC. Definitely not.
Maybe they wanted minority representation on the debate stage....it’s not like Gabbard could fulfill that role.

They may not be, but the certainly have been acting like the DNC circa 2014-15.

[DMT]

Des Moines Register endorses Warren.

[Teenwolf]

Des Moines Register endorses Warren.

Not sure traditional newspaper endorsements mean much of anything anymore. NYT was built up as a huge reveal, and it seems to have had zero positive effect. Maybe a local paper holds a bit more weight, but I don't see it.

Media freaking out over Sanders is powering his surge, as well as Warren's backstabbing sinking her like a rock, defecting to Sanders. RCP averages show Sanders much closer to Biden than Warren is to him. The clips I saw today of idiots like Chris Matthews and Harry Enten shouting and celebrating Bernie's surge will only propel him further. I never expected the media to roll over so easily, but it seems if they aren't smearing him, they don't know what to say. It's been highly enjoyable to witness.

[Teenwolf]

New recording of a dinner between Lev Parnas and Trump reveals that Trump is afraid of facing Sanders, and when Biden's name comes up, everybody laughs, with Trump saying "I hope he does run". That quote hasn't made it to articles yet, but I heard the audio.

donald trump said it wouldve been tougher win 2016 if clinton had picked bernie sanders vp

President Donald Trump expressed his belief that it would have been "tougher" to win against former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton in 2016 if she had picked Senator Bernie Sanders as her running mate, according to recordings of a conversation released by Lev Parnas' legal team.

The nearly 90-minute taped conversation, which reportedly took place at a private 2018 dinner attended by Parnas, an associate of Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, was released by lawyers for Parnas. [...]

"Had she [Clinton] picked Bernie Sanders it would've been tougher. He's the only one I didn't want her to pick," Trump can be heard saying in the recording. The president had previously pointed to Sanders positions on trade, suggesting that they resonate with voters.

"You know he basically says we're getting screwed on trade. And he's right," the president noted.

I've been surprised at how long it's taken people to figure out what a shitty choice Biden is, but they're finally getting it. Sanders' momentum has been unreal. Iowa and New Hampshire both looking very good, narrative of electability is shifting, and Buttigieg and Warren have each cleared the path with their own failings.

Biden's "why why why why why why" moment, his recent interview about his connection to the black community, his pathological lying about Sanders, Iraq vote, cutting entitlements, have all been highly embarrassing to anyone following. If Warren and Yang and Gabbard all conspire to stay in the race longer and force a brokered convention, that's about the only thing that could stop Sanders at this point. He needs those 3 to drop out before super Tuesday to be able to collect enough delegates for 50% +1. Warren is tanking hard, and she's the biggest domino to fall.

[Sour Masher]

That audio seems to focus on how Sanders as VP would he helped HRC. Does he also say Sanders as presidential candidate would be his biggest concern? It may very well should be, but to me, how hard they are trying to sink Biden suggests he sees Biden as his biggest threat. Again, I'm not saying he should, but that he does seems obvious by his actions.

[Teenwolf]

That audio seems to focus on how Sanders as VP would he helped HRC. Does he also say Sanders as presidential candidate would be his biggest concern? It may very well should be, but to me, how hard they are trying to sink Biden suggests he sees Biden as his biggest threat. Again, I'm not saying he should, but that he does seems obvious by his actions.

You think Trump prefers to face Biden?

In the recording, everybody laughs at the mention of Biden and Trump says "I hope he does run". In the context of a meeting with Guiliani and Parnas, it makes sense that Trump would see Biden as vulnerable.

What signs do you see that show Trump is more scared of Biden than Sanders?

[Teenwolf]

By the way, these poll headlines never get old.

New Hampshire polls shows Bernie ahead. Headline reads "Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg lead in New Hampshire: poll"

The poll shows Sanders (22%) ahead of the pack, Buttigieg (17%), Biden (15%), Warren (13%), Klobuchar (10%), Gabbard (6%), Yang (5%).

Is there any possible excuse to run that headline? Previously, they do this when Sanders' lead is within the margin of error, but all credible polls have a lower than 5% +/-.

I don't care much at this point, it's just interesting to see it still happening.

[Sour Masher]

You think Trump prefers to face Biden?

In the recording, everybody laughs at the mention of Biden and Trump says "I hope he does run". In the context of a meeting with Guiliani and Parnas, it makes sense that Trump would see Biden as vulnerable.

What signs do you see that show Trump is more scared of Biden than Sanders?

That fact that he tried to get dirt on him and get a foreign leader to suggest there was dirt on him. And don't say, well, he did that cuz there is dirt and Sanders has no dirt. There are transcripts that make it clear Trump did not care if there was actual evidence. He wanted the investigation announced. He is not above fabricating dirt on anyone, so why would he focus on Biden if he didn't want Biden taken out as a candidate?

[Teenwolf]

That fact that he tried to get dirt on him and get a foreign leader to suggest there was dirt on him. And don't say, well, he did that cuz there is dirt and Sanders has no dirt. There are transcripts that make it clear Trump did not care if there was actual evidence. He wanted the investigation announced. He is not above fabricating dirt on anyone, so why would he focus on Biden if he didn't want Biden taken out as a candidate?

The problem here is that you seem to think Hunter Biden isn't anymore of a liability than Sanders' own relatives, multiple of which are politicians. They're not the same. A Sanders smear wouldn't work because Sanders' son wasn't paid millions of dollars for influence peddling on foreign energy boards, while simultaneously feeding a crack addiction and impregnating strippers he would later refuse to pay support for...

Trump knows he's running the 2016 playbook again, depress turnout. Biden is so obviously the weakest candidate to depress turnout against. That's why in the tape from Parnas, the whole table laughs at the mention of Biden. Trump says "I hope Biden does run", after the laughter. He simply knew that if Biden ran, the establishment would likely get behind him. Even up until the last week, outside of fringe political junkies like me, everybody has been saying Biden was by far the likeliest to get the nomination for a year straight now. Seems smart to build the public case against the frontrunner, to highlight the Democratic party division. It's all very smart, and I'm really starting to re-evaluate Trump's political intelligence.

Also, this wasn't the first leak of Trump expressing fear of facing Bernie, so it seems obvious that Trump is really hoping to take Biden out IN the general election, not before it.

[Sour Masher]

Also, this wasn't the first leak of Trump expressing fear of facing Bernie, so it seems obvious that Trump is really hoping to take Biden out IN the general election, not before it.

If that was his plan, he failed. I think all this smoke helps Sanders edge out Biden--and that is probably a good thing for those wanting Trump beaten. I think it is likely he felt safer contrasting his policies and economy with Sanders and wanted to take Biden out. I think it may very well backfire on him, but he clearly has used kid gloves with Sanders, back in 2016 and now. I think he underestimates him. That is why he went so hard after HRC and now Biden. He thinks he can point to his economy, use the socialism label and Sanders and say he will destroy everything and win.

[Teenwolf]

If that was his plan, he failed. I think all this smoke helps Sanders edge out Biden--and that is probably a good thing for those wanting Trump beaten. I think it is likely he felt safer contrasting his policies and economy with Sanders and wanted to take Biden out. I think it may very well backfire on him, but he clearly has used kid gloves with Sanders, back in 2016 and now. I think he underestimates him. That is why he went so hard after HRC and now Biden. He thinks he can point to his economy, use the socialism label and Sanders and say he will destroy everything and win.

This all makes sense. In Trump's mind, he can defeat anybody, including Sanders. But there have been several leaks which show his reluctance to face Bernie among the field, saying things like "Socialism won't be so easy to beat", and talking about how Sanders would be tough to beat on trade policy. He knows deep down that Sanders would smack the shit out of him for scrapping NAFTA and replacing it with a nearly identical trade agreement, and it would deliver him all of those midwest states Hillary lost in '16.

Tucker Carlson was messaging to Trump this week that Sanders could beat him. Especially if Trump actually runs on "Keep America Great", he will get crushed.

[DMT]

Yes, Sanders crushes Trump but Trump crushes the rest of the field. You missed your calling TW.

[Sour Masher]

Old school Bernie sounds just like current Bernie (I did not know Vermont was one of the poorer states back then--is that true; haven't looked it up). But I can't believe he is 4 years younger than me here:

[Teenwolf]

Yes, Sanders crushes Trump but Trump crushes the rest of the field. You missed your calling TW.

You cannot argue facts anymore so you immediately resort to petty personal insults. Fucking pathetic.

Any response to the relative weight of the Des Moines Register endorsement, or just personal bullshit?

[Teenwolf]

Sour Masher, that Donahue clip from '81 is one of my all-time favourites. I love it because he's so incredibly consistent, but also because they act so surprised that he won in a traditionally Republican district, and give him a chance to explain his appeal to independents. 39 years later, same exact messages.

They can't attack Bernie for being inconsistent, or lying, or flip-flopping, or corruption. They've got "Venezuela", socialism, etc.