Democratic Party 2017 and beyond

[GwynnInTheHall]

Don't hold your breath, LOL. Honestly we know how the discussion will go if anyone actually reads them and responds...while I think the articles were good it is sort of pointless for me to post them. But it's a slow Saturday !

But it could illustrate why there will be no progress until those in the party admit there's a problem and that they and their attitudes are a big part of it.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I'll just drop this here and wait for some heads to explode.

<iframe width="560" height="340" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lOTsK_WGNAc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Redbirds Fan]

This one is good too

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.2993659

I was thinking today about a couple of guys who joined our my AL-only league several years ago. They were new to fantasy baseball, but had played some fantasy sports as kids. They were interested in learning the ropes, though, so they fit in pretty well. They were genuinely liked and did very well the first year. They added a lot to the league.

Things changed in the off-season. They suddenly seemed to believe they were some kind of experts on fantasy baseball, and on our league in particular. This was hard for us to accept, especially since they still didn't have a thorough understanding of our rules, or of the league history which informed our decision making process. Nonetheless, they demanded numerous changes in our rules and policies, to be made effective immediately, including revisions of the way we handled keepers, the auction, free agents, long-term contracts, and other matters. And they made it clear they wouldn't be satisfied unless their demands were fully met.

They even went so far as to claim they would have done better in the standings the year before if other owners had not colluded against him.

In response, a league meeting was called to discuss the situation, and specifically the demands the new team owners had made. Some remaining owners wanted to capitulate. Their reasoning was that some of the changes demanded were good ideas, and could help the league (even though some of them were not as practical and might even drive some long-standing owners away). Other owners were more skeptical. They didn't like the fact that the new guys had not worked to build the league, but now expected to step in and start calling the shots. An important factor for some was that there was no gurantee that either new owner could be counted upon to stay to the remainder of the season even if the demanded changes were made.

Suffice it so say there was much debate and many hard feelings before any decisions were reached. Funny how it still crosses my mind from time to time.

[gcstomp]

Gith, powerful message from the #justus speaker. I went to justicedemocrats.com and agree with platform. The progressive platform as detailed on site is what majority of Americans want, it is not radical, not extreme, it is about the will of people being reflected by those in office. The challenges are D will be playing the game against a stacked deck, one team taking the money that is embedded in lobby politics. I am thankful every day for trump, as nothing can unite the country better than that as what we all don't want, and know to be wrong.

[The Feral Slasher]

I was thinking today about a couple of guys who joined our my AL-only league several years ago. They were new to fantasy baseball, but had played some fantasy sports as kids. They were interested in learning the ropes, though, so they fit in pretty well. They were genuinely liked and did very well the first year. They added a lot to the league.

Things changed in the off-season. They suddenly seemed to believe they were some kind of experts on fantasy baseball, and on our league in particular. This was hard for us to accept, especially since they still didn't have a thorough understanding of our rules, or of the league history which informed our decision making process. Nonetheless, they demanded numerous changes in our rules and policies, to be made effective immediately, including revisions of the way we handled keepers, the auction, free agents, long-term contracts, and other matters. And they made it clear they wouldn't be satisfied unless their demands were fully met.

They even went so far as to claim they would have done better in the standings the year before if other owners had not colluded against him.

In response, a league meeting was called to discuss the situation, and specifically the demands the new team owners had made. Some remaining owners wanted to capitulate. Their reasoning was that some of the changes demanded were good ideas, and could help the league (even though some of them were not as practical and might even drive some long-standing owners away). Other owners were more skeptical. They didn't like the fact that the new guys had not worked to build the league, but now expected to step in and start calling the shots. An important factor for some was that there was no gurantee that either new owner could be counted upon to stay to the remainder of the season even if the demanded changes were made.

Suffice it so say there was much debate and many hard feelings before any decisions were reached. Funny how it still crosses my mind from time to time.

How did everyone feel when some of the owners let to join the league run by an orange haired clown ?

You pretty much confirm what was said in the second paragraph of the article "As a general rule the Democratic Party doesn’t listen well and struggles to hear the truth about itself." No need to listen to any of the new owners, you guys got this under control !

[Hornsby]

How did everyone feel when some of the owners let to join the league run by an orange haired clown ?

You pretty much confirm what was said in the second paragraph of the article "As a general rule the Democratic Party doesn’t listen well and struggles to hear the truth about itself." No need to listen to any of the new owners, you guys got this under control !

You need to re-read that post by Red if those are the conclusions that you come to. They DID listen to the new owners, they had a league meeting, there was much debate among the league members, some of the old members LIKED some of the suggestions of the newer members, and finally decisions were reached.

It certainly doesn't sound like not listening to the new guys, as your post suggests.

[The Feral Slasher]

You need to re-read that post by Red if those are the conclusions that you come to. They DID listen to the new owners, they had a league meeting, there was much debate among the league members, some of the old members LIKED some of the suggestions of the newer members, and finally decisions were reached.

It certainly doesn't sound like not listening to the new guys, as your post suggests.

Honestly I can't believe you want to have a discussion about a fantasy league comparison to the Democratic Party. Lucky makes clear his disdain for the "owners" who aren't really loyal to the league and haven't put in the time to be true members...but still want to "call the shots". This is consistent with his posting over the last year or so....Trump was elected because Bernie and his supporters screwed the Democratic Party. Never any consideration that the Democratic Party abandoned the working class or nominated the worst candidate (I forgot, second worst !!!) in history. It's all Bernie and his supporters fault and the Democratic Party doesn't need them....because Donald Trump !

[Hornsby]

Honestly I can't believe you want to have a discussion about a fantasy league comparison to the Democratic Party. Lucky makes clear his disdain for the "owners" who aren't really loyal to the league and haven't put in the time to be true members...but still want to "call the shots". This is consistent with his posting over the last year or so....Trump was elected because Bernie and his supporters screwed the Democratic Party. Never any consideration that the Democratic Party abandoned the working class or nominated the worst candidate (I forgot, second worst !!!) in history. It's all Bernie and his supporters fault and the Democratic Party doesn't need them....because Donald Trump !

Again, reading comprehension. The post was an analogy, it's not about the League, the league just substituted for the Democratic Party. But you know that.

And frankly, if you read the post again, you'll see that while there was contention between the old and the new, it seems like there was eventually some sort of consensus.

And again, many factor went into Trump being elected, we need not rehash them all over again. The Democrats are what they've always been, a messy, disorganized mob that eventually will coalesce into a coherent force. Perez and Ellison are on the same page, and will gradually herd the cats together. Are the Berners going to get everything they want? No. Are the centrists going to win? No There will be a movement to the left AND a movement to the right. The party isn't going to explode into a million pieces either...

And I'm always curious, just how did the Dems abandon the working class? By trying to organize labor, by fighting for a livable minimum wage? By finally getting a semblance of affordable health care for all? By fighting for LGBTQ rights? If your answer is that they take money from corporate interests, well, welcome to politics.

[The Feral Slasher]

Again, reading comprehension. The post was an analogy, it's not about the League, the league just substituted for the Democratic Party. But you know that.

And frankly, if you read the post again, you'll see that while there was contention between the old and the new, it seems like there was eventually some sort of consensus.

And again, many factor went into Trump being elected, we need not rehash them all over again. The Democrats are what they've always been, a messy, disorganized mob that eventually will coalesce into a coherent force. Perez and Ellison are on the same page, and will gradually herd the cats together. Are the Berners going to get everything they want? No. Are the centrists going to win? No There will be a movement to the left AND a movement to the right. The party isn't going to explode into a million pieces either...

And I'm always curious, just how did the Dems abandon the working class? By trying to organize labor, by fighting for a livable minimum wage? By finally getting a semblance of affordable health care for all? By fighting for LGBTQ rights? If your answer is that they take money from corporate interests, well, welcome to politics.

Your first two paragraphs sort of contradict each other : ) But that's not really what the discussion is about.

Really the heart of the matter is your last paragraph. And I don't intend to PROVE to you that Democrats did abandon the working class. Just like I could never PROVE to you that Hillary Clinton was "corrupt". In my opinion (backed by polls I have seen) that there is widespread belief that the Dems abandoned the working class. The Democratic Party can choose to believe it or not...it's really up to them to convince people, not me. And right now they are doing an exceedingly poor job. Do you dispute that ?

[Hornsby]

Your first two paragraphs sort of contradict each other : ) But that's not really what the discussion is about.

Really the heart of the matter is your last paragraph. And I don't intend to PROVE to you that Democrats did abandon the working class. Just like I could never PROVE to you that Hillary Clinton was "corrupt". In my opinion (backed by polls I have seen) that there is widespread belief that the Dems abandoned the working class. The Democratic Party can choose to believe it or not...it's really up to them to convince people, not me. And right now they are doing an exceedingly poor job. Do you dispute that ?

I didn't ask you to PROVE your thesis, I simply asked you to say why you think the way you do. It's your opinion, and you obviously have reasons to think the way that you do. So yeah, I'd like to see the reasoning behind your belief.

I think that the party is changing, just the way that it's always done. It's going to move more to the left, no doubt about it, but is it going to move enough to placate the Bernie faction? Or are they simply going to demand total capitulation by the leadership. I think that the change is going on behind the scenes, but it will be real, and it will be evident by the 2018 election cycle.

[The Feral Slasher]

I didn't ask you to PROVE your thesis, I simply asked you to say why you think the way you do. It's your opinion, and you obviously have reasons to think the way that you do. So yeah, I'd like to see the reasoning behind your belief.

I think that the party is changing, just the way that it's always done. It's going to move more to the left, no doubt about it, but is it going to move enough to placate the Bernie faction? Or are they simply going to demand total capitulation by the leadership. I think that the change is going on behind the scenes, but it will be real, and it will be evident by the 2018 election cycle.

Fair enough. When I have some free time I'll offer my opinion about why some people may be disenchanted with the Dems. I doubt it will be new or earth shattering revelations though.

So do you accept that (many) people no longer view the Dems as supporting the working class ? And is so why do you think that is ?

[Hornsby]

Fair enough. When I have some free time I'll offer my opinion about why some people may be disenchanted with the Dems. I doubt it will be new or earth shattering revelations though.

So do you accept that (many) people no longer view the Dems as supporting the working class ? And is so why do you think that is ?

I do accept that opinion, and for the life of me, I can't understand why. Unless there is a legitimate 3rd party, which there currently isn't, the Democrats offer the best shot for the working man. Look what Trump and the GOP are doing to them on health care alone...the poor and the elderly are going to be slaughtered if this GOPCare bill passes.

[The Feral Slasher]

I do accept that opinion, and for the life of me, I can't understand why. Unless there is a legitimate 3rd party, which there currently isn't, the Democrats offer the best shot for the working man. Look what Trump and the GOP are doing to them on health care alone...the poor and the elderly are going to be slaughtered if this GOPCare bill passes.

I'll try to list some larger categories, and then if I have time or interest I could add some details links.

1) Middle Class wages have stagnated/declined. Inequality has increased. I think there is a dissatisfaction with traditional organizations. Belief that "The System isn't Working for me", that the rich are getting richer and the poor and middle class are suffering. This undoubtedly affects Republicans as well as Democrats.

2) Some Democratic specific policies have either failed to help, haven't helped enough, or have actually made life worse for certain segments of the population.

3) The Democratic party (like the Republican) is increasingly run by elites who are disconnected from everyday people and aren't trusted. Perception that politicians are out to benefit themselves, not the working class.

4) Much of the messaging from the Dems has focused on issues that don't apply or aren't significant to many Americans (identity politics for example) and instead caters to the upper or upper middle class "limousine liberals".

This probably covers most of it but I'll add one that may or may not really be significant, but might just be a pet peeve of mine

5) Perception that Democrats are judgemental/close minded or too extremist when it comes to diversity. Overly PC for lack of a better word. Unwillingness to listen to alternate points of view. Unwillingness to admit fault. Overly defensive of Democratic Policies. Tribalism. Hypocrisy. Focusing on criticizing Republicans/Trump in areas that most poor/working class people don't really care about.

There is probably some overlap in there, but I think most of what I believe is encompassed by what I wrote above

[The Feral Slasher]

I do accept that opinion, and for the life of me, I can't understand why. Unless there is a legitimate 3rd party, which there currently isn't, the Democrats offer the best shot for the working man. Look what Trump and the GOP are doing to them on health care alone...the poor and the elderly are going to be slaughtered if this GOPCare bill passes.

If the GOP healthcare mods go thru that could really hurt them in the long run or even short run, I agree. I read somewhere that Trump should offer Medicare for all and it would be so much better than ACA that it would destroy the Democratic Party. Don't think that's gonna happen.

And I don't disagree that Dems are a better choice for the working man...but they should aspire to be a good choice, not simply better than the other option.

[Hornsby]

I'll try to list some larger categories, and then if I have time or interest I could add some details links.

1) Middle Class wages have stagnated/declined. Inequality has increased. I think there is a dissatisfaction with traditional organizations. Belief that "The System isn't Working for me", that the rich are getting richer and the poor and middle class are suffering. This undoubtedly affects Republicans as well as Democrats.

2) Some Democratic specific policies have either failed to help, haven't helped enough, or have actually made life worse for certain segments of the population.

3) The Democratic party (like the Republican) is increasingly run by elites who are disconnected from everyday people and aren't trusted. Perception that politicians are out to benefit themselves, not the working class.

4) Much of the messaging from the Dems has focused on issues that don't apply or aren't significant to many Americans (identity politics for example) and instead caters to the upper or upper middle class "limousine liberals".

This probably covers most of it but I'll add one that may or may not really be significant, but might just be a pet peeve of mine

5) Perception that Democrats are judgemental/close minded or too extremist when it comes to diversity. Overly PC for lack of a better word. Unwillingness to listen to alternate points of view. Unwillingness to admit fault. Overly defensive of Democratic Policies. Tribalism. Hypocrisy. Focusing on criticizing Republicans/Trump in areas that most poor/working class people don't really care about.

There is probably some overlap in there, but I think most of what I believe is encompassed by what I wrote above

Solid post, and I can't disagree with any of your points...I might shade them one way or another, but all are valid, IMO. They're all also correctable, if the party leader wish to do so...that's the biggest question.

I like the concept of offering Medicare to all, it's essentially single payer health care, and you're right, if the GOP left it alone, they would rule for decades.