2K24: New York Yankees

[BuckyBuckner]

Yanks acquire David Carpenter & Chasen Shreve for Manny Banuelos

Who is Chasen Shreve?

I think I like this deal.

[revo]

Who is Chasen Shreve?

I think I like this deal.

I think this deal was like dealing Shin-Soo Choo away midseason to get someone like Michael Brantley. Banuelos is the big-name junk, the other two have the real value. Great deal for the Yanks.

[Hornsby]

I think this deal was like dealing Shin-Soo Choo away midseason to get someone like Michael Brantley. Banuelos is the big-name junk, the other two have the real value. Great deal for the Yanks.

Everyone thought that Betances was a bust as well...maybe all Banuelos needs is to get away from the Yankees and get a fresh start.

[BuckyBuckner]

The other two are middling relievers - totally fungible. I really like this deal for the Braves an awful lot. Choo for Brantley? I don't get that comparison at all. Even if Betances amounts to absolutely nothing it's not like the Braves have traded away much to take the chance. Betances was absolutely untouchable really recently and has just struggled with injuries.

I think David Carpenter is better than a middling reliever. He has a career 201/65 K/BB ratio in 186 IP. That's better than middling. I know relievers number can vary greatly from one year the next but I think he can be a very good setup man. Isn't Banuelos coming off his second TJS? The track record for those guys is really bad. Or is it just his first?

[Kevin Seitzer]

The other two are middling relievers - totally fungible. I really like this deal for the Braves an awful lot. Choo for Brantley? I don't get that comparison at all. Even if Betances amounts to absolutely nothing it's not like the Braves have traded away much to take the chance. Betances was absolutely untouchable really recently and has just struggled with injuries.

Braves got Banuelos, not Betances.

[BuckyBuckner]

Everyone thought that Betances was a bust as well...maybe all Banuelos needs is to get away from the Yankees and get a fresh start.

If people thought Betances was it a bust it was a bust as a starter, but I think people knew that for a long time. I think it was always assumed that with his fastball he could be a good reliever. No one expected the kind of season he had last year though. Maybe Banuleos can become a good reliever if he can't make it as a starter but then the Yanks got two relievers for one reliever.

[Hornsby]

I think David Carpenter is better than a middling reliever. He has a career 201/65 K/BB ratio in 186 IP. That's better than middling. I know relievers number can vary greatly from one year the next but I think he can be a very good setup man. Isn't Banuelos coming off his second TJS? The track record for those guys is really bad. Or is it just his first?

Nope, I can only find one TJ...and he struck out almost a batter an inning last year, and only gave up 64 hits in 76.2 innings. This is also a guy that Mariano Rivera said was the best pitching prospect that he'd ever seen...take that for what you will.

Power leftys are hard to find...a little TLC and a tune up and the Braves have a controllable player for years to come.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Power leftys are hard to find

Manny Banuelos throws 91 mph, Chasen Shreve throws 93 mph. Which one are you talking about?

[Hornsby]

Manny Banuelos throws 91 mph, Chasen Shreve throws 93 mph. Which one are you talking about?

Banuelos has K'd exactly a batter an inning for his career...if he's not a power lefty, he's a young crafty lefty.

From Baseball America:

Banuelos’ fastball, which had peaked at 97 mph in the past, was up to 94 by the end of the year, and was steadily in the low 90s.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Banuelos was 91-92 in April-June and 90-91 in July-August when he came back post-blister.

The fact that scouts like to mention the hardest pitch they ever saw a guy throw and act as if that is his fastball velocity is one of the things that annoys me the most. If you want to talk about him touching 93-94 a few times, then mention that he was at 88 some, too. Typically fastball velo is supposed to refer to where a pitcher sits, not where he touches at the peak, unless you explicitly say that so people can discount your info appropriately.

He consistently sat 91 this year and was a little lower than that after the blister.

[Hornsby]

Banuelos was 91-92 in April-June and 90-91 in July-August when he came back post-blister.

The fact that scouts like to mention the hardest pitch they ever saw a guy throw and act as if that is his fastball velocity is one of the things that annoys me the most. If you want to talk about him touching 93-94 a few times, then mention that he was at 88 some, too. Typically fastball velo is supposed to refer to where a pitcher sits, not where he touches at the peak, unless you explicitly say that so people can discount your info appropriately.

He consistently sat 91 this year and was a little lower than that after the blister.

I have no problem with that, but EVERYONE is tossed out there with their maximum velocity as a touchstone. Also, we need to remember that this was his 1st season back from TJ, so there were still some of the typical peaks and valleys associated with recovery.

IMO, the important things to look at are A: he's healthy, B: he's still young (age 23), and C: he's almost 2 years removed from TJ. So if he's going to ever break out, it'll likely be in the next year or two. He's a solid gamble for a team like the Braves who are re-tooling for 2016 and beyond. The relievers are replaceable, starting pitching is tough to find.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I have no problem with that, but EVERYONE is tossed out there with their maximum velocity as a touchstone.

No, they're not. The accepted practice is that if you don't specify, you are talking about average velocity. And if you are talking about peak velocity, you say that the pitcher touches that velo. Scouts sometimes abuse that practice when they are trying to tout a player, but that's not viewed as kosher. I recognize that as a fan that can be confusing, particularly because a lot of prospect blogs and fan blogs like to find and promote whatever positive things they can find on their prospects, even out of context, but that's not how the industry handles fastball velo data.

A lefty touching 94 is nothing special. A lefty sitting 94 is special. Big difference.

[Hornsby]

No, they're not. The accepted practice is that if you don't specify, you are talking about average velocity. And if you are talking about peak velocity, you say that the pitcher touches that velo. Scouts sometimes abuse that practice when they are trying to tout a player, but that's not viewed as kosher. I recognize that as a fan that can be confusing, particularly because a lot of prospect blogs and fan blogs like to find and promote whatever positive things they can find on their prospects, even out of context, but that's not how the industry handles fastball velo data.

A lefty touching 94 is nothing special. A lefty sitting 94 is special. Big difference.

That's why I say it's a touchstone...almost every write-up on a pitcher points out his top velocity. And good write-ups also indicate what the average is on every pitch...and as you know, velocity means next to nothing without the command and control of the pitch.

[Bob Kohm]

He'll be this year's Prado type (without the, you know... hitting ability, lol)-- might start at 2B, might go to SS if Gregorious can't handle the job, might start as a utility guy if Refsnyder or Pirela have a good Spring Training. My best take is that he's the Opening Day 2B while Refsnyder & Pirela work on their defensive games (Refsnyder at Scranton, Pirela as the Opening Day utility guy with the big team) and that Refsnyder displaces him at some point over the summer.

That said, I don't like the deal-- I've been very impressed with how Cashman has woven together what at first looked like some bizarre moves into a younger team that should be competitive in 2016-17 and has done it by not falling into the old Yankee "proven veteran" trap. It's only a one year deal, but Drew has "proven veteran" written all over him. I'd have let Refsnyder, whose bat looks MLB ready, continue to figure out the glove at the MLB level this year. I would guess that what just stopped that from happening is that the AL East looks awfully wide open right now-- really any of the top four teams (Toronto, NY, Boston or Baltimore) could take the division. Personally I would prefer to have Cashman & the Steinbrenners let the other three fight it out as mediocrities while the Yankees prepare to go big in the FA market next winter while awaiting the coming of the Judge/Severino/Sanchez generation of prospects and set up the potential of a new run of very good years as the huge crop of foreign talent they signed in 2014 matures and starts making an impact in the early '20s.

[joncarlos]

100% agree with Bhob. (Uh-oh)

I've come around on the moves Cashman made this year and was actually pretty happy with this off-season, but do not like the Drew deal. Maybe a proper spring training will help him not completely suck.