The ISIS Speech

[Bob Kohm]

Let's go ahead and mock Ron Paul and the isolationists...

Finally, something on the money from Slasher!

[The Feral Slasher]

Finally, something on the money from Slasher!

You're a funny guy Bob. I assume you think our foreign policy and war on terror have been a tremendous success. 13 years later and "the threat" is greater than ever ! Nice work. Why don't you go ahead and list all the success stories, can't wait to hear them.

[onejayhawk]

Ron Paul is fully mockable for plenty of reasons that have nothing to do with isolationism.

Fine. You draft him.

J

[Gregg]

Fine. You draft him.

J

Nicely played.

[The Feral Slasher]

Ron Paul is fully mockable for plenty of reasons that have nothing to do with isolationism.

Agreed, the only reason I mentioned him is that anyone who questions U.S. involvement in a foreign war is immediately labeled an isolationist and compared to Ron Paul. As if mentioning his name is all the justification that is needed to begin bombing or invading another country. I mean Ron Paul is CRaaaazyyy, but spending $10 trillion dollars unsuccessfully fighting the war on terror is just good policy.

[chancellor]

CIA study indicates that arming and training rebel groups rarely works: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/us...s&emc=rss&_r=1

And you trust the CIA?

Seriously, the Kurds are no mere "rebel group". They're an ethnic group that is, unlike most of the Middle East countries, religiously diverse. They would like to form an independent country to be protected from persecution from Turks, Iranians, and many Arab states. Other than that, they have no grandiose designs on vast swaths of territory, beheading unbelievers, and creating the caliphate.

Given the other players in the Middle East, we can hardly hurt our foreign policy by assisting the Kurds.

[nullnor]

I think we have done some things for Kurds. set up a no-fly zone in Iraq to protect them. worked together during the Iraq war. they seem to be closer to having their own country than before.

[chancellor]

The US just provided Turkish Kurds with airlifted weaponry and supplies, so I guess concerns about "cowardice" should be temporarily assuaged.

Better late than never, though I see this as far more of a political bowing more than any kind of intelligent plan.

[chancellor]

LOL, tough to win with you when it comes to Obama, sometimes.

Fair point that I'd concede if we'd also be arming the Kurds in the northeast that could really provide a strong buffer against ISIS and protect Mosul and the Mosul dam. But we're not. Which I think is clueless, shortsighted and stupid. So, yeah, not too many brownie points for the admin for doing something they should have done weeks ago in the west.

I've also been loosely following the reactions from liberal and conservative talking heads. The conservatives are, predictably imo, braying for more and more violence in reaction. The liberals, perhaps surprisingly, are also starting to call for extreme reactions. Some very core sentiment has been affronted by the actions of ISIS. I guess beheading innocents and the like will get you there.

Meh, I'm not too enthused about troops on the ground either. Though I do wonder about the value of the 101st in western Africa dealing with ebola versus the value they'd deliver beating the crap out of ISIS. All that aside, I agree the options are limited. Helping Iran? Hell, no. The Iraqi army is (and has been since the 1940s) wholly incompetent. With the exception of the Kurds in Syria, there isn't a Syrian rebel group that's remotely close to trustworthy. The Turks want to reestablish the Ottoman Empire.

But I'm completely stumped as to why we'd not go pretty much all-in with the Kurds. They've proven to be tough, resilient ground forces. They have no interest in establishing a caliphate or empire. They have no interest in conversion by the sword or establishing Sharia law through their lands. We won't do it because we're afraid of offending the Turks? Damn, that's stupid.

Of course, if we really wanted to fix it, we could just tell Israel to expand to their borders from the time of Joshua.

[nullnor]

it's important what a bad weapons drop can tell you. sure we dropped 2 packages and then came back and destroyed one of them. but the Turkish president (or imbecile) told us the direction he is willing to go. he's more afraid of ISIS than Kurds, even tho we wishes to eventually use ISIS against Assad. they're a NATO member and we are but each one of us has to give and take. and you have to allow the US to use our unique skill set when we want to.

the Assad regime is a lot more difficult to solve than ISIS. we've definitely run out of steam of replacing secular dictators. it didn't work out in Libya. and not only could've Syria taken on Turkey before all this in a fair fight. but Syria was building their military to fight Israel. and Israel is a lot tougher than turkey. Syria had the biggest military in the middle east. they might not have had the best but they had the biggest.

and now here we are. obviously the Assad regime will survive. but only because there are no better secure options. .. you know ISIS having a few MiGs reminds me of the final days of the Tamil Tigers even tho that's a bad comparison.

but I agree, Turkey politicians are the losers here. I understand their reticence for the terrorism and unrest, but right now they are a bad and weak NATO member. they can't make decisive decisions in their own back yard. and they remotely only want to rebuild their Ottoman Empire. their president is not trustworthy.

[The Feral Slasher]

Agreed, the only reason I mentioned him is that anyone who questions U.S. involvement in a foreign war is immediately labeled an isolationist and compared to Ron Paul. As if mentioning his name is all the justification that is needed to begin bombing or invading another country. I mean Ron Paul is CRaaaazyyy, but spending $10 trillion dollars unsuccessfully fighting the war on terror is just good policy.

Probably doesn't really belong in this thread, but I found this article interesting. Unfortunately, I never get the feeling that our government over the last 13 years puts this much thought into how we act and react.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/11/10/standing-in-an-adversarys-shoes/

[heyelander]

Probably doesn't really belong in this thread, but I found this article interesting. Unfortunately, I never get the feeling that our government over the last 13 years puts this much thought into how we act and react.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/11/10...ersarys-shoes/

very good stuff

[Fresno Bob]

very good stuff

agreed