My disabled dachshund, Part Two

[Lucky]

Lucky,

I struggle with the torture idea. On the one hand I agree that torture is wrong, on the other I could see myself under the right circumstances employing it (which even thinking about it makes me a little sick to my stomach).

You are locked in a room with your son's kidnapper. He has buried him in the woods with enough oxygen to last a couple of hours at best. He makes no demands, and just takes pleasure in your suffering. The only thing in the room is a pencil. What are you going to do with it?

I honestly do not know what I would do, and would hate to find out. I confess that I believe I would do what it takes to get the information to save my childs life.

I would hope that at some point all of our leaders (whether I agree with their politics or not) would have something close to love of our Country and citizens, much like we do for our kids.

You raise a really tough question. I don't know what I would do, either. That's one of the problems that is probably inherent in policy decisions, that even good policies can have bad results in some cases.

It would certainly be a test of faith in the case of a child being kidnapped and buried, and I know what you mean about the sick feeling in your stomach. I believe that if there were an imminent threat to the life of my wife, daughter or son (as in a burglar with a knife to their throats) that I could use deadly force to protect them. So, maybe under extraordinary circumstances I could torture someone if it were absolutely necessary to save the life of a family member.

The really hard question, though, is what we want our government to do. Although there can be no society without the individuals who comprise it, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. We should expect our society's moral strength to be greater than our own. It reminds me of the question pundits used to ask politicians who were against the death penalty, what if it was your wife who was murdered? Sure, many of us personally would like to see the murderer drawn and quartered, but that still leaves room for the belief that the death penalty is not something our government should impose.

So, if I understood you correctly, we both have strong but mixed feelings on the issue. I don't know the answer to all the questions, but I know that I cringe every time our leaders condemn others for their human rights abuses and they throw back at us the torture issue. I share Senator McCain's fears that we have increased the danger to our troops in the field, as well.

[nullnor]

You're mistaken here again, Larry. If you'd bothered to look at the thread before popping off, you would have seen that. John brought in politics with the Bush photo in post 27. Then you got political in post 29. I responded two posts later. So no, John and Lucky didn't bring politics into the thread. John and Larry brought politics into the thread. And then you opened the door on personally offensive comments.


Larry, you don't know me. It's amazingly arrogant to claim that you do. You don't know anything about my family situation or my canine situation, other than the small part of the story I shared here. The rest is your imagination.

Stay, leave, whatever. I'm tired of sharing your angst. You join PaleoTalons on "ignore".

yeah, i don't know anything thats why everything i said came true. you don't spend the money to fix your pup cause your an old man that's trained in his ways. sure you love animals, but pigs would have to fly before you'd spend a couple grand on their health.

i totally helped you. then i get drunk and talk politics and i suddenly don't measure up to your political standards. called me a comedian (twice). then when gloves come off a little you run away. lol. don't stand in the kitchen if you can't take the heat bub. you're not fooling anyone.

i could live in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space.

[nullnor]

you waste your time and argue about things that don't matter and have nothing to do with you, and ignore the things that do.

it's really none of my business, but i bet anything you have to say about your financial situation is a lie now, because your worried about how'd you look. also treating the dog's injury one event at a time is pennywise and pound foolish in the long run.

edit: your totally lying about something. and you sound like PGP by calling me by my first name and arguing about who said what. you lie, then hide it, then lie again and change the subject about politics (to find some moral higher ground) then run away. your a house of cards.

i hope ppl here realize what a phoney you are. you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place if you had no intention of doing the smart and right thing. it's not about the puppy anymore, it's about what a fake you are.

im just glad they didn't ban me so i could say that. it's not me going off about an animal. you play a good game but something stinks about you. you really sound like PGP and for that you should be ashamed. but they'll have sympathy for you because your Lucky. and they need you. but your a total liar. im sorry.

[nullnor]

ok i lost my cool and im sorry for that. im sure many of you know that an animal or pets health is really the only thing that would've caused this perfect storm of events. it fustrating to know the proper thing to do but not be able to do it. im sure it's also fustrating for Lucky.

this was the scenario he faced. he missed the intial injury (which we all do) and had a chance to operate and make it so the dog would be prefectly fixed and be normal. after he lost that opportunity, a year later, he still had the chance to operate and make it so the dog could still walk without pain but never be normal, for example not jump but not lose the ability to walk once the matter cut into the spinal cord or screwed up other disks. he chose to do neither even after being given the chance, as far as i know.

now the dog is in pain, and will eventually lose the ability to walk and have to be carted. it's still probably not to late to do the latter and have it be able to take care of itself. it's still even possible the 2nd scenario can resolve itself on it's own, but not without an $1,200 MRI to tell if it will.

i still hope Lucky will make the right choices, even if he refused to hear. and i apologize for my ugliness. the worst part is i knew that kind of stuff (arguing) wouldn't help as all i cared about was the dog, and the dog didn't need me screwing it up for him and pushing his owner into denial. it's one of those situations where you want to help but by being rough with the owner you only make it worse.

i ****ed up with Lucky. i don't care about that tho. i just want him to do whats best. and that means fixing his dogs situation which he probably can still do. it's better for him, the dog and everyone. good ppl get 2nd and 3rd chances. but don't **** that up either. it's all about still keeping his pets ability to walk.

[nullnor]

he's probably got me on ignore still, and there is the chance i could be wrong, even tho i'd be not sure to believe him. but i'd still rather have a miracle happen and be wrong than not have a miracle happen and be right... if that last sentence are my final words than those words aren't so bad.