I came here for insight on Syria... and nothing..

[nullnor]

the liberal way of thinking is to say even if Assad didn't fire them, he was in charge of them and lost control. therefore he is still responsible.

also, we signed up for this when we became the world policeman. and you don't debate about whether to enter a war when your already involved in it.

you could make a video game. start with Manuel Noriega (im not good with history). Somalia would be hard. capture Saddam, kill Gaddafi (which was kind of disgusting), arrest Mubarak, and then on to the final wave (which is always the hardest) and Assad. that's our objective. whether anyone likes it or not, im just saying.

[senorsheep]

I voted for Obama with the same reservations you'd expect any Libertarian-leaning independent to have. For all my doubts, never did I imagine him leading us into another dumb war, using the exact same blueprint from the last dumb war. Senator Obama would be ashamed of President Obama.

Watching this unfold, I'm angry and embarrassed that I voted for this guy. Barring some actual change, I'm pretty sure I've voted for my last major party president. Republicans or Democrats, it doesn't matter - they've both been consumed by power, corruption, and sickness, and neither represents my vision of how this country should be. I'll just go back to voting against them both, and laughing at any major party supporters who tell me I'm wasting my vote. Take the planks out of your own eyes, suckers.

[baldgriff]

Watching this unfold, I'm angry and embarrassed that I voted for this guy. Barring some actual change, I'm pretty sure I've voted for my last major party president. Republicans or Democrats, it doesn't matter - they've both been consumed by power, corruption, and sickness, and neither represents my vision of how this country should be. I'll just go back to voting against them both, and laughing at any major party supporters who tell me I'm wasting my vote. Take the planks out of your own eyes, suckers.

Welcome to the Dark Side!!!

[nots]

I voted for Obama with the same reservations you'd expect any Libertarian-leaning independent to have. For all my doubts, never did I imagine him leading us into another dumb war, using the exact same blueprint from the last dumb war. Senator Obama would be ashamed of President Obama.

Watching this unfold, I'm angry and embarrassed that I voted for this guy. Barring some actual change, I'm pretty sure I've voted for my last major party president. Republicans or Democrats, it doesn't matter - they've both been consumed by power, corruption, and sickness, and neither represents my vision of how this country should be. I'll just go back to voting against them both, and laughing at any major party supporters who tell me I'm wasting my vote. Take the planks out of your own eyes, suckers.

Very accurately describes the way I feel too.
This guy (much like the last guy) is an embarrassment. And now sadly, the Senate FRC has given him the cover he needs to make excuses when this thing goes from bad to worse.
Think some folks in Geneva might want their Peace Prize back?

[DMT]

I voted for Obama with the same reservations you'd expect any Libertarian-leaning independent to have. For all my doubts, never did I imagine him leading us into another dumb war, using the exact same blueprint from the last dumb war. Senator Obama would be ashamed of President Obama.

Watching this unfold, I'm angry and embarrassed that I voted for this guy. Barring some actual change, I'm pretty sure I've voted for my last major party president. Republicans or Democrats, it doesn't matter - they've both been consumed by power, corruption, and sickness, and neither represents my vision of how this country should be. I'll just go back to voting against them both, and laughing at any major party supporters who tell me I'm wasting my vote. Take the planks out of your own eyes, suckers.

I'm right with you. Nader was right, they are two branches of the Corporate War party. The only hope for this country is to break free of the shackles that is the two-party system.

[johnnya24]

He looked weathered and hesitant today. Almost beaten. I've never seen him like that.

I think he'll get what he wants here. No-one on either these committees has even questioned the lack of definitive evidence, rather shockingly. Lack of oversight isn't restricted to intelligence committees it seems. But he knows that after this summer, whatever he envisioned his legacy to be, is now a distant memory. He is, as someone above alluded to, Bush II.

One party, two names.

[johnnya24]

I'm right with you. Nader was right, they are two branches of the Corporate War party. The only hope for this country is to break free of the shackles that is the two-party system.

Maybe the answer is mass voter rejection rather than a 3rd party. Mass organised ballot spoiling. Remove their mandate to rule. People should not be forced with a "bad" or "worse" choice. Both the USA and UK need an urgent change of electoral system - I think we're mature enough for PR STV.

None of the Above

[johnnya24]

Predictions are for a comprehensive defeat in the House. Lots of undecided voters though. I wonder what pressure will be brought to bear. Seems like there is a mountain to climb to turn this around. In the UK a Tory front bencher who abstained on the government motion got sacked a few days later.

Also, there did not seem to be this level of opposition on display at either of the congressional hearings from the past 2 days.

It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[DMT]

This is obviously giving him much more credit than he deserves, and will be completely off-base if he orders the strikes in spite of Congress denying authorization, but what if Obama agreed to let Congress vote because he decided not to launch the attacks? He couldn't have possibly thought the American public would support him, and therefore recognized that the House would be a tough sell, especially with so many Republicans voting against anything he requests. After the British Parliament voted no, the USA's most important ally had abandoned him and he grasped the parallels with Iraq. Is it possible he finally looked in the mirror and saw W's eyes staring back?

[johnnya24]

I'm sure he can find some legal justification if the House rejects his wishes. That seems to be the modus operandi of this administration. Legal justification should be their catchphrase. But can he realistically go to war with such massive resistance and after the House have voted it down?

Realistically, a Democratic president should have no problem passing a bill/motion like this. He should only have to carry a majority on his own benches. I don't think we can definitively say that Republian's will vote no for Party Political reasons. Some may do so of course ... a chance to deliver a humiliating blow to Obama. But there does seem to be a lot of genuine resistance to Syrian intervention from the right, both in the UK and US. It was politicians on the right who ultimately prevented Cameron from militarily joining this crusade ... and he's still desperately trying to weasel his way back.

When Glenn Beck and Vlad Putin are the voice of reason, something is terribly wrong,

[Don Quixote]

IMO President Obama has put himself in a political box. No matter which way he goes, someone is going to be royally pissed. This is what happens when you put a person who doesn't understand geopolitics into the Presidency (Jimmy Carter being another well-meaning but hopeless example). Fine words mean nothing to the people involved, all the "jawboning" in the world means nothing, and limited action means nothing.

The first irony of this situation is that the people who will benefit the most if Assad is (rightfully) overthrown hate the USA even more.

The second irony is that in his belated attempt to gain congressional cover for his possible actions, the President has to rely on the Republicans, people who have every reason to want military action (because they almost always do) but also every reason to not give the President what he wants.

The third irony is that if the President takes even limited action, the people here who will be the maddest are his base, who've yet to see a terrible action that calls for response. You could shove a nuke up the tail of some of the Loony Left here, set it off, and the rest of the Left would urge "caution" (read: do nothing) in responding to it, because any response would make someone mad (as if they're not already?).

On one level, I am sympathetic to President Obama. There is no good way to go on this one. On another level, it's a predicament much of his own making. Being a weenie has only encouraged those who are opposed to us and who use or want to use weapons almost universally banned.

[The Feral Slasher]

The third irony is that if the President takes even limited action, the people here who will be the maddest are his base, who've yet to see a terrible action that calls for response. You could shove a nuke up the tail of some of the Loony Left here, set it off, and the rest of the Left would urge "caution" (read: do nothing) in responding to it, because any response would make someone mad (as if they're not already?).

On one level, I am sympathetic to President Obama. There is no good way to go on this one. On another level, it's a predicament much of his own making. Being a weenie has only encouraged those who are opposed to us and who use or want to use weapons almost universally banned.

Yes, it's the Loony Left who has it all wrong. The U.S. really needs to get more involved in overseas military operations, we just don't have enough of that. 10 years ago Al Qaeda was a small group in Afghanistan, after all our droning and invading they have spread to North Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, Syria, Iraq. I guess the problem is that we are weenies. If we just let them know we are serious I'm sure we would have won the war on terror by now.

[Don Quixote]

Yes, it's the Loony Left who has it all wrong. The U.S. really needs to get more involved in overseas military operations, we just don't have enough of that. 10 years ago Al Qaeda was a small group in Afghanistan, after all our droning and invading they have spread to North Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, Syria, Iraq. I guess the problem is that we are weenies. If we just let them know we are serious I'm sure we would have won the war on terror by now.

It's not the Loony Left's opposition to this potential war that's a problem. I think most of the country is on their side on this one. It's that they ALWAYS have a reason for non-involvement, no matter how vile or evil the acts and people involved. The modern American Left, had they been around in 1941, would have been in favor of sharply worded notes to Japan and Germany instead of war.

Their failure lies in one of their best attributes, their intellect. They fail to understand that some, possibly most, of the world, including its leaders, are not people who respond to talk and reason, but only to action or at least the plausible threat of action.

I'm with them on this one, not because of their opposition but because there is no good option when you consider all the options.

Repeating--There is no good option here. No matter what action or inaction our President takes, he's going to be wrong.

[The Feral Slasher]

It's not the Loony Left's opposition to this potential war that's a problem. I think most of the country is on their side on this one. It's that they ALWAYS have a reason for non-involvement, no matter how vile or evil the acts and people involved. The modern American Left, had they been around in 1941, would have been in favor of sharply worded notes to Japan and Germany instead of war.

Their failure lies in one of their best attributes, their intellect. They fail to understand that some, possibly most, of the world, including its leaders, are not people who respond to talk and reason, but only to action or at least the plausible threat of action.

I'm with them on this one, not because of their opposition but because there is no good option when you consider all the options.

Repeating--There is no good option here. No matter what action or inaction our President takes, he's going to be wrong.

Pretty sure we have seen nothing close to Pearl Harbor for about 70 years. Maybe I missed something ? I have lots of examples where U.S. involvement ended up being a tremendous waste of money and lives, in fact that is true of just about every one of our recent wars. I just find it strange that you think the problem is that we don't have enough military involvement. Very strange conclusion in my opinion.

[senorsheep]

I keep hearing how the president has "boxed us/himself in," and I don't understand that viewpoint. There are any number of face-saving ways to walk away from military intervention at this point. He could kick it to the UN - sure, nothing would get done, but it is the proper venue, and that would be consistent with his pronounced respect for the rule of international law. He could put a resolution to a Congressional vote, let the House vote it down, blame the obstructionist Republicans, and say "Hey, I tried." (Or better yet, say "The American people have spoken, and I will respect their will.") Or he could try this - "Upon further reflection, I have decided that it is not in the best interest of The United States to get involved in a Syrian civil war, they need to sort out their own domestic issues." Any one of these rationales would be embraced by an American public that is clearly exasperated by endless "dumb war" in The Middle East.

The hawks seem to think that inaction will send inappropriate messages about American resolve to the various geopolitical players involved in the conflict. I don't think the world is as impressed by our military cock-wagging as the hawks think they are. Perhaps it would be more beneficial for our foreign enemies to know that they can't easily sucker us into their conflicts whenever they need a distraction to bail them out of whatever sh!tstorm they've stirred up. Wasn't it candidate Obama's contention that wisdom should trump military strength in foreign affairs? That was a good thought, Mr. President, so, please, have the courage of your convictions and try it.