REM Draft Discussion Thread

[johnnya24]

Not a fan of champagne socialists?

Don't ask how Michael Stipe lives, then...

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/06/13/house-of-the-day-michael-stipes-tribeca-duplex-penthouse/

Undoubtedly a more favorable carbon footprint than Billy's mansion, but still...

Yanks have a a very odd notion of "socialist"

Billy Bragg leans whatever way the prevailing wind blows ...

[Lucky]

Yanks have no notion of "Socialist" - the word is used as a generic derogatory term, usually tossed toward the left by the right. Often the same people who toss the term around so loosely equate it with Communism, which of course is a completely different animal. As a political science major, this drives me nuts.

Are we still waiting on fb at 4.08?

[Erik]

Are we still waiting on fb at 4.08?

Yes.

The better term for Stipe is "Limousine Liberal."

[johnnya24]

I posted FB's last pick. At time he was rushing to catch a flight.

I imagine he's lying on a beach, sipping a pina colada and thinking ... that's them well and truly "mith'd".

[Pogues]

Yanks have no notion of "Socialist" - the word is used as a generic derogatory term, usually tossed toward the left by the right. Often the same people who toss the term around so loosely equate it with Communism, which of course is a completely different animal. As a political science major, this drives me nuts.

Are we still waiting on fb at 4.08?

Socialism and Communism aren't completely different animals, they are fairly close in the political spectrum. As a political science major, it drives me nuts when people deny that. :-)

[Lucky]

Socialism and Communism aren't completely different animals, they are fairly close in the political spectrum. As a political science major, it drives me nuts when people deny that. :-)

Saying they are close on the political spectrum isn't denying they are different animals. If you put fascism on one end of the teeter totter, you could probably put socialism and communism on the other, but as political philosophies, they are quite distinct. As a philosophy major, it drives me nuts when people confuse the two.

[johnnya24]

Socialism and Communism aren't completely different animals, they are fairly close in the political spectrum. As a political science major, it drives me nuts when people deny that. :-)

Socialism and the form of communism we have come to associate with the term (Soviet Communism) are very different.

Communism is supposed to be the the ideal state of socialism that emerges out of a period of socialist bliss. In that sense it is related. But communism in this ideal form has never existed, and never will. This is supposedly the true path to authentic communism :

Capitalism --> Socialism --> Communism

Soviet Russia went through neither the Capitalist nor Socialist phases. The Soviet Union is more accurately viewed as Leninist (I hate using the term Marxist-Leninist ... but that's the technical term). Within the left (the actual left, as opposed to the American "left of the right" thing) Socialism and Soviet communism are radically opposed to each other.

[senorsheep]

OK, pretend that instead of "champagne socialist," I called Billy Bragg an "utterly phony douchebag hypocrite who made a career of pimping the worst half-witted hang-the-rich rhetoric whilst living in his own freaking mega-mansion and surrounding estate." And, no, based on what little I know about Michael Stipe personally, I wouldn't characterize him in the same way.

And Michael Stipe's music is a hell of a lot better than Billy Bragg's, so let's get back to that, shall we?

[Lucky]

OK, pretend that instead of "champagne socialist," I called Billy Bragg an "utterly phony douchebag hypocrite who made a career of pimping the worst half-witted hang-the-rich rhetoric whilst living in his own freaking mega-mansion and surrounding estate." And, no, based on what little I know about Michael Stipe personally, I wouldn't characterize him in the same way.

And Michael Stipe's music is a hell of a lot better than Billy Bragg's, so let's get back to that, shall we?

Absolutely.

[Pogues]

Socialism and the form of communism we have come to associate with the term (Soviet Communism) are very different.

Communism is supposed to be the the ideal state of socialism that emerges out of a period of socialist bliss. In that sense it is related. But communism in this ideal form has never existed, and never will. This is supposedly the true path to authentic communism :

Capitalism --> Socialism --> Communism

Soviet Russia went through neither the Capitalist nor Socialist phases. The Soviet Union is more accurately viewed as Leninist (I hate using the term Marxist-Leninist ... but that's the technical term). Within the left (the actual left, as opposed to the American "left of the right" thing) Socialism and Soviet communism are radically opposed to each other.

Interesting... it sounds as if you agree with me.

[johnnya24]

Interesting... it sounds as if you agree with me.

I guess it depends how you define "Communism". In the pure sense communism is the end state of Socialism.

But what the media, and the man in the street understand as communism is far away from Socialism. In fact I've never seen more political vitriol in the same room when I was with my left-wing Greek friends at Uni ... always started off nice, and then the red wine kicked in and it was all out war.

Next stop ... semantics

... and we all covered both ways

[johnnya24]

So what are the REM songs you are listening to as a result of the draft?

Of the songs that have been drafted so far:

Ignoreland (had it on repeat for hours after Lucky picked it)
So. Central Rain (kinda knew I wasn't going to be able to find room)
Driver 8 (never gets old)
Nightswimming (one of the best ever climaxes to a pop song ... I think it's a clarinet, it's not deep enough to be an oboe. My favorite song ending is 1979 by The Smashing Pumpkins ... both have orchestral climaxes)
Perfect Circle

... the latest ... Try Not To Breathe ... totally forgot about that. Great little song.

[Lucky]

So what are the REM songs you are listening to as a result of the draft?

Of the songs that have been drafted so far:

Ignoreland (had it on repeat for hours after Lucky picked it)
So. Central Rain (kinda knew I wasn't going to be able to find room)
Driver 8 (never gets old)
Nightswimming (one of the best ever climaxes to a pop song ... I think it's a clarinet, it's not deep enough to be an oboe. My favorite song ending is 1979 by The Smashing Pumpkins ... both have orchestral climaxes)
Perfect Circle

... the latest ... Try Not To Breathe ... totally forgot about that. Great little song.

Bang and Blame
Drive
Find the River
The One I Love
Talk About The Passion
Orange Crush

[Erik]

Is there a clock on this thing?

[Lucky]

This whole Boston thing played out since my last pick, some 28 hours ago.

Alive, with "unspecified medical needs".