Guidance on my Fantasy Football "career"?

[johnnya24]

Yeah, I actually had this planned....until the ******* developer flaked on me right before the deadline to submit it.

So, hopefully, I can find another developer that I can:

A. Trust
B. Meet deadlines
C. Not rape me with his fees
D. Trust
E. All the Above!

I'm seriously thinking about going to school to be an app/database developer....just so I don't have to rely on someone else to get my ideas into place.

It's horrible....how pathetic these people are....maybe it's because I live in Canton Ohio. lol

Yup ... this is verrrrry common in the industry ... all over the world, not just Ohio. That is why it is so risky to go with a freelancer, they can just bail on you at any time if they find a better offer elsewhere. On the other hand, if you go with a local development firm, they will fleece you dry.

I was in the same boat about 3 years back ... trying to get a website start-up going ... but was quoted INSANE prices. So after more than a few bad experiences (I got messed around a lot and lost several thousand £ in the process), I went and learned front-end web development (HTML, CSS, Javascripting ... I already had Photoshop skills ... you just need knowledge of how the rest works), and set up my own web development company with a programmer friend from Uni (he's back in Lahore now ... so we technically have an offshore development side).

In fact we used my negative experiences in dealing with Development Firms, the same experience that you are going through now, as a foundation for the marketing of the business. It really strikes a cord. So don't think you are alone ... you most definitely are not.

Web development is the biggest rip-off ... they are worse that second hand car salesmen.

[griswold]

What about FFToday? They are strictly football and they don't really have anyone that does consistency. It could be a good fit for both of you. They also have online draft tools that they sell and your consistency app could be tied into that or sold as an add-on.

Hey bud...lol....you don't pay attention much to this site, do ya?

http://www.fftoday.com/tools/crank.php

And Fantasy Football toolbox even stole the name.... http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/quality-games.cfm

[johnnya24]

Thanks Jude! What do you mean by white label web vs mobile side?

Right now it's already create as a mobile app....go here to check it out HERE.

I actually have an Apple created app but it never did work right so I took it off the market.

I would think it would take much to fix it....but I have to find someone who I can trust that won't rape me $$$-wise.

I've looked into the Kickstarter idea....might try that as well.

Is that jquery mobile your developer used? It looks like jquery mobile (web app) rather than a native app.

How far into development was the app?

---------------------

Some impartial and critical thoughts:

The interface is really confusing

I'm really not sure what I'm doing here.

It desperately needs to be simplified.

The UI needs to be much more user friendly.

There seems to be 2 or 3 stages missing.

It needs some serious design work (which should be incorporated with the UI development) ... everything looks like stock jquery mobile.

If it is going to work as an app ... it needs to be explainable in 3 or 4 points ... and then it needs to be fun and interesting to use. People are not going to read 5 or 6 paragraphs. If hey don't get it immediately, they will move on.

You may also need to add a few more layers to the overall experience of using the app, and use this "consistencyX" parameter as a feature of the app, rather than the only feature.

- Did your developer complete the back-end ... is the CMS complete, can you update the database, add new players, all that stuff?

- Will you require people to register and log in etc? You are asking people to save settings, but there isn't a login system in place. Casual users hate registering for things.

- Why are you thinking about this as an app? Surely it would work much better as a straight website? Are you thinking about monetizing it as an app ... because you cannot really monetize a web app in the same way as an iPhone or Android App? The reason I say that is because when people are running numbers on their fantasy teams, they generally aren't gong to be doing that on their iPhone ... it will be their laptop or desktop.

Edit: I would be thinking of building a website and then making a quality mobile.css version of the same site rather than wasting time and money on a web app (basically the same thing without a few frills like transitions). I'd see how that works before trying to monetize it with native Apple and Android apps.

Is a full version on the website and a simplified version of the mobile version a possibility?

Presets ... could you device some statistical presets that users could easily click to see how that changes up the rankings? I would suggest presets links for the player pages also ... just presenting a table of stats isn't going to work IMO.

Links are broken/not working when you go back and forth from a players page to the main rankings.

- How often do you see people using this during the season ... is it a one off thing once per year, or something they can return to week after week?

What is the link-up with rotoexperts? They have a nice website, and nicely designed mobile version of their website. Are they successful ... making money?

(I'll just keep adding thoughts ... at least you stopped me watching Michel Roux Jr videos)

Edit: sorry it's all a bit random ...

[revo]

So here's a critical question, Gris -- if all the sites pointed out here already have a Consistent/Quality Games stat, then what do you think the value proposition is with yours?

[JudeBaldo]

So here's a critical question, Gris -- if all the sites pointed out here already have a Consistent/Quality Games stat, then what do you think the value proposition is with yours?

That's what I was thinking. Gris, think not about your product per se, but how you'll disrupt the space you want to enter and if your product is capable of doing that, if not, you gotta pivot.

Honestly, the big issue with your "product" is that it is content. The problem with content is that unless you are doing something paradigm shifting with it, (e.g. PECOTA) then people my not pay attention. Additionally, content can be easily cloned. So the best strategy for you is be on every platform, channel, etc. that you can get on. You may be a marketable product than your consistency product. So maybe market yourself as the regular Joe accountant by, fantasy football guru by night, with consistency profiles as the proof of your guru status?

The other issue is that with so many purported experts in fantasy football, it's tough to breakthrough the noise. Plus its a game that doesn't necessarily warrant the kind of analysis required to be successful in fantasy baseball or basketball. I know that my brothers who love fantasy football, would have a tough time reading your book. They play fantasy football precisely because it's much easier than baseball. So if you can possibly re-frame or re-format your content, it may be more digestible.

[griswold]

Yup ... this is verrrrry common in the industry ... all over the world, not just Ohio. That is why it is so risky to go with a freelancer, they can just bail on you at any time if they find a better offer elsewhere. On the other hand, if you go with a local development firm, they will fleece you dry.

I was in the same boat about 3 years back ... trying to get a website start-up going ... but was quoted INSANE prices. So after more than a few bad experiences (I got messed around a lot and lost several thousand £ in the process), I went and learned front-end web development (HTML, CSS, Javascripting ... I already had Photoshop skills ... you just need knowledge of how the rest works), and set up my own web development company with a programmer friend from Uni (he's back in Lahore now ... so we technically have an offshore development side).

In fact we used my negative experiences in dealing with Development Firms, the same experience that you are going through now, as a foundation for the marketing of the business. It really strikes a cord. So don't think you are alone ... you most definitely are not.

Web development is the biggest rip-off ... they are worse that second hand car salesmen.

Thanks Johnny!

Yeah, I actually taught myself Joomla and created my current website, www.bigguyfantasysports.com.

However, I've been thinking about creating a new one. I own the domains for fantasyfootballconsistency.com and ffconsistency.com.

I've thought about just doing it all there by myself with the regular version of the database which is www.bigguyfantasysports.com/conreport.aspx

Thoughts?

[griswold]

Is that jquery mobile your developer used? It looks like jquery mobile (web app) rather than a native app.

How far into development was the app?

---------------------

Some impartial and critical thoughts:

The interface is really confusing

I'm really not sure what I'm doing here.

It desperately needs to be simplified.

The UI needs to be much more user friendly.

There seems to be 2 or 3 stages missing.

It needs some serious design work (which should be incorporated with the UI development) ... everything looks like stock jquery mobile.

If it is going to work as an app ... it needs to be explainable in 3 or 4 points ... and then it needs to be fun and interesting to use. People are not going to read 5 or 6 paragraphs. If hey don't get it immediately, they will move on.

You may also need to add a few more layers to the overall experience of using the app, and use this "consistencyX" parameter as a feature of the app, rather than the only feature.

- Did your developer complete the back-end ... is the CMS complete, can you update the database, add new players, all that stuff?

- Will you require people to register and log in etc? You are asking people to save settings, but there isn't a login system in place. Casual users hate registering for things.

- Why are you thinking about this as an app? Surely it would work much better as a straight website? Are you thinking about monetizing it as an app ... because you cannot really monetize a web app in the same way as an iPhone or Android App? The reason I say that is because when people are running numbers on their fantasy teams, they generally aren't gong to be doing that on their iPhone ... it will be their laptop or desktop.

Edit: I would be thinking of building a website and then making a quality mobile.css version of the same site rather than wasting time and money on a web app (basically the same thing without a few frills like transitions). I'd see how that works before trying to monetize it with native Apple and Android apps.

Is a full version on the website and a simplified version of the mobile version a possibility?

Presets ... could you device some statistical presets that users could easily click to see how that changes up the rankings? I would suggest presets links for the player pages also ... just presenting a table of stats isn't going to work IMO.

Links are broken/not working when you go back and forth from a players page to the main rankings.

- How often do you see people using this during the season ... is it a one off thing once per year, or something they can return to week after week?

What is the link-up with rotoexperts? They have a nice website, and nicely designed mobile version of their website. Are they successful ... making money?

(I'll just keep adding thoughts ... at least you stopped me watching Michel Roux Jr videos)

Edit: sorry it's all a bit random ...

I agree with most of your thoughts Johnny.

But I was just trying to get it out there with ****ty programmers that I trusted....I know what I want it to do...but it never seems to end up that way.

[griswold]

So here's a critical question, Gris -- if all the sites pointed out here already have a Consistent/Quality Games stat, then what do you think the value proposition is with yours?

There a number of reasons I believe mine is better.

1. You can enter your scoring method and receive who the most consistent players are in YOUR league. The other sites are based on 1 scoring method and calculations.
2. I provide analysis articles with my data. Most sites just provide the data.
3. There data only shows the YTD numbers. I show the weekly QG earners and non-earners AND the YTD info.
4. I can provide trends of who has been consistently over the past 2-5 weeks.
5. I can provide them with data regarding of players have done historically when playing against various teams, home/away and the strength of the defenses they're playing.

That's just some of the reasons and I have other ideas that I've never even created on paper yet.

[griswold]

The other issue is that with so many purported experts in fantasy football, it's tough to breakthrough the noise. Plus its a game that doesn't necessarily warrant the kind of analysis required to be successful in fantasy baseball or basketball. I know that my brothers who love fantasy football, would have a tough time reading your book. They play fantasy football precisely because it's much easier than baseball. So if you can possibly re-frame or re-format your content, it may be more digestible.

Here's another thing that I forgot to mention in Revo's query.....my consistency stuff is actually very simple compared to many of the other consistency calculations.

They go very deep by adding additional columns which break the consistency out between STUD, Above Avg and Avg....now, that is confusing.

Mine is simple....you either earn a Quality game or you don't. I could go deeper but I don't.

Does that sense? Or do I assume that it's easy....and yet many would think it's not.?

[johnnya24]

I agree with most of your thoughts Johnny.

But I was just trying to get it out there with ****ty programmers that I trusted....I know what I want it to do...but it never seems to end up that way.

If you can find a way to build or map a UI so it works how you want it to, then you can communicate your ideas to a developer much easier. Even if it's a photoshop image or something like that. Websites that are heavy on functionality are the hardest to properly convey to a developer. The database side is actually quite easy for a competent developer. If something like this is to work, it will depend so much on the UI, and how you present your story to the user.

Maybe try and think about how the data is presented rather than the data itself. One of my websites is super heavy on functionality, and building the front end myself meant that I didn't have much explaining to my developers ... who are all offshore. They can just look and see how something is supposed to work and render ... it doesn't answer all the questions, but it does avoid huge mis-communications.

I prefer Wordpress to Joomla, although I haven't looked at Joomla for like more than a year, so they may have upgraded it. Both are clunky though.

[griswold]

Just wondering....has anyone ever used Pro Football Focus?

Mike Clay and some others that I met at the Fantasy Football Fest are writers for them and I have reached out to them regarding my future.

Just wondering what people thought of the site.

Thanks!

Bob

[johnnya24]

Can't you get together with some unaffiliated fantasy football guys and set up your own website. Then use that wider platform to incorporate your ideas.

[griswold]

It's funny you bring that up....I thought about searching for unaffiliated Fantasy football writers who focus on unique stats and combine our efforts and call it the "Fantasy Football Specialists".

[johnnya24]

It's funny you bring that up....I thought about searching for unaffiliated Fantasy football writers who focus on unique stats and combine our efforts and call it the "Fantasy Football Specialists".

Definitely the way to go. Start something up yourself, with a broader base that your original app plan ... and then you can add specialist elements to enrich teh site.

Can be done, no matter how competitive or saturated the market seems. Set something up yourself or with one or two trusted people in the industry, and then look to attract more to your project as your grow. Sports news is big business ... you could try and set up your niche in the high-end analytical end of things ... not just fantasy sports but really deep analysis of games ... beyond the typical reporting. There has to be a market for this.

I'll give you the example of The Verge ... this site has risen to become the biggest tech site in the world in the space of a couple of years. They have the same content as the other tech sites (Engadget, Techadar etc) ... all of whom have been established for a decade or more. They did it by creating a great user experience and a very modern UI layout.

The people who set up The Verge and the parent company Vox Media were all bloggers and writers who got huge backing based on creating a cross media online publishing platform ... so far they have launched SBNation, The Verge and Polygon.

SBNation might be of some interest to you ... it is a blog network of 300 separate sports websites/blogs maintained by part-time bloggers and writers etc. that is pooled into a single source. Maybe this doesn't move you along that much from your current situation? but it could be a good way to get your message into the mainstream.