GOP Convention Rules!

[cardboardbox]

Politifact rates Ryan's statement as FALSE. Looks like MJ is correct and you're wrong here, Chance.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...gm-plant-open/

politifiction is hoping lemmings only see the headline and dont read down in the article where they buried the line about the plant staying open into 2009.

General Motors will end medium-duty truck production in Janesville on April 23, four months to the day after the plant stopped building full-size sport utility vehicles.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/feb...day-finalized/

Looks like MJ is wrong and chancellor is correct.

[Lurker765]

politifiction is hoping lemmings only see the headline and dont read down in the article where they buried the line about the plant staying open into 2009.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/feb/19/gm-plant-last-day-finalized/

Looks like MJ is wrong and chancellor is correct.

Did you read the article you linked? I am pretty sure MJ is right and you (and chancellor) are wrong.

If you consider finishing a single small truck line order in the last four months with 100 people while laying off over 1000 in December to still be a thriving plant then I guess we see things differently. And then those 100 people were let go when their task finished.

[cardboardbox]

Did you read the article you linked? I am pretty sure MJ is right and you (and chancellor) are wrong.

If you consider finishing a single small truck line order in the last four months with 100 people while laying off over 1000 in December to still be a thriving plant then I guess we see things differently. And then those 100 people were let go when their task finished.

Did Ryan say it was thriving?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Did Ryan say it was thriving?

It's expected that GOprs like yourself quantify lies, seeing as how you became so good at it under Bush the 2nd.

[nullnor]

when the chips are down america comes together. in the meantime, everything else is just details.

[Moonlight J]

^^^^^

said it for me

It befuddles me that had his ticket been in charge in the last four years, that plant, and all others like it would have been shut down as they "let them go bankrupt"

On June 3, 2008 Ryan sent a letter to Wagoner cosigned by Feingold and Sen. Herb Kohl. In it, they asked the company to consider the importance of the plant to the town, as well as to explore bringing new product lines to the facility. “The Janesville GM plant has a continued role to play in the future success of GM and we ask that GM reconsider the decision to close the Janesville plant,” the legislators wrote…

Also

In September of 2008, Ryan traveled to Detroit with three Democrats—Sen. Russ Feingold, Rep. Tammy Baldwin, and Gov. Doyle—to meet directly with GM executives and ask them not to close the plant….

There is PLENTY of stuff that the GOP could run on in this election cycle but this is yet another desperate attempt to use lies and distortion to score points with the base. Ryan is being 110% intellectually dishonest here using random dates to make a point. I expect this from some posters, but not you, Chancellor

[Moonlight J]

It's expected that GOprs like yourself quantify lies, seeing as how you became so good at it under Bush the 2nd.

Not lies, factual shortcuts. Get it right

[GwynnInTheHall]

Not lies, factual shortcuts. Get it right

Hey man, I'm an amateur at this "Intellectual Dishonesty" thing. Great term by the way.

[Moonlight J]

Did Ryan say it was thriving?

fact of the matter is the decision to close the plant was made as early as Spring 2008, under the Bush administration. The actual closing of the factory was scheduled against current orders and thus the multi-tiered downsizing but for anyone to claim the final call to close the plant was made in 2009 is simply ignorant of the facts.

[cardboardbox]

fact of the matter is the decision to close the plant was made as early as Spring 2008, under the Bush administration. The actual closing of the factory was scheduled against current orders and thus the multi-tiered downsizing but for anyone to claim the final call to close the plant was made in 2009 is simply ignorant of the facts.

and those inconvenient facts are inconvenient arent they? The fact is the plant closed in 2009. You can spin all you want but you cant change that fact.

[Moonlight J]

GM plans to shutter production at its Toluca, Mexico, pickup truck at the end of the year and its Oshawa, Canada plant will be closed in 2009. Plants in Moraine, Ohio and Janesville, Wisconsin, are slated for closure in 2010 “or sooner if market demand dictates,” GM said.

free markets are a double-edged sword

But this morning, I spoke to a leading business official in Janesville, Wisconsin, who was at the center of efforts to save the GM plant — one who supports Paul Ryan — and he offered a nuanced version of the history that strains simplistic interpretations.

The official, John Beckord, who heads the pro-business group Forward Janesville, makes two key points. First, that the market for the GM product in question collapsed much faster than anyone expected it would at the time of Obama’s speech. Second, that there is no telling whether the plant would have reopened, even if the economy had recovered faster.

Beckord said he thinks Obama did make some “serious” mistakes that resulted in a too-sluggish recovery. But he said GM’s problems went well beyond the economy, and that even three or four percent GDP wouldn’t have necessarily led to its reopening.

“GM’s situation was about more than the economy,” Beckord said. “GM’s situation also had to do with the product mix and its history of product issues. There were a lot of issues here besides the performance of the economy.”
Asked if the plant would have reopened under a better recovery, Beckord said: “We don’t know that.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/wisconsin-business-leader-and-ryan-supporter-not-clear-obama-to-blame-for-closed-gm-plant/2012/08/30/a752db7c-f2b9-11e1-adc6-87dfa8eff430_blog.html

[Moonlight J]

and those inconvenient facts are inconvenient arent they? The fact is the plant closed in 2009. You can spin all you want but you cant change that fact.

You're college educated. I've met you in person. I know you are better than this.

The facts show the decision to close the plant happened in the Bush administration and the largest reduction of workers also came in that. When you reduce a factors from 1300 workers to 100 workers and relocate the ones that are willing to do so, you are effectively shutting down the plant. GM had to honor the existing product orders which is why a skeleton crew was left in place to finish the mid-size orders.

When the doors were locked for the last time is incredibly insignificant compared to when the decision was made to de-fund the plant and you know this.

[Lurker765]

and those inconvenient facts are inconvenient arent they? The fact is the plant closed in 2009. You can spin all you want but you cant change that fact.

In that case the plant is not actually closed down since (from your article):
"GM spokesman Chris Lee said Wednesday that a handful of skilled trades employees will remain at the plant after shutdown of the Isuzu line."

So you can spin all you want but you can't change the fact that employees still remain. We can both play this game.

I cannot believe this is something you can argue about. It isn't like the decision to shutter this plant was made in 2009.

[GwynnInTheHall]

and those inconvenient facts are inconvenient arent they? The fact is the plant closed in 2009. You can spin all you want but you cant change that fact.

And Weapons of Mass Destruction exists in Iraq today.

[GwynnInTheHall]

In that case the plant is not actually closed down since (from your article):
"GM spokesman Chris Lee said Wednesday that a handful of skilled trades employees will remain at the plant after shutdown of the Isuzu line."

So you can spin all you want but you can't change the fact that employees still remain. We can both play this game.

I cannot believe this is something you can argue about. It isn't like the decision to shutter this plant was made in 2009.

He believes whatever he's told by his Republican Overlords. He'll argue against logic till the bible in his hands bursts into flames.