The INDEFENSIBLE Defense of Marriage Act

[Pogues]

Comments like this make you no better than the bigot you're calling out.

I thought the same thing last night. Embarrassingly...I chose not to say anything when I read it. I need to do a better job to fight against the hate of racism and bigotry...I keep telling myself I must.

[Kevin Seitzer]

I thought you were much too busy with the Astros these days to remember!

I guess it's been two occasions I've been a religion...I just didn't create the second one. It was found in my honor...I guess?

I'm the first openly avowed Poguist in a major league front office.

[In the Corn]

I thought the same thing last night. Embarrassingly...I chose not to say anything when I read it. I need to do a better job to fight against the hate of racism and bigotry...I keep telling myself I must.

Do any of the other folks on Jude's side of this argument agree with me?

I've taken the barbs of being called a bigot here for my view on homosexual activity. I don't agree that I'm a bigot, but this statement from one of the lefty in the group goes unchallenged by the ElD, Moonlight J, et.al. Perhaps you're brand of hate is no different, just on a group of people that you don't understand.

You're ignorance is no different than mine, just viewed on a different subset of society.

Don't be blind to it.

[heyelander]

Don't all gay men try to?

figured that was coming, but I didn't want to mess up the joke with qualifiers.

[onejayhawk]

I'm the first openly avowed Poguist in a major league front office.

Get a forum.

J

[onejayhawk]

Do any of the other folks on Jude's side of this argument agree with me?

I've taken the barbs of being called a bigot here for my view on homosexual activity. I don't agree that I'm a bigot, but this statement from one of the lefty in the group goes unchallenged by the ElD, Moonlight J, et.al. Perhaps you're brand of hate is no different, just on a group of people that you don't understand.

You're ignorance is no different than mine, just viewed on a different subset of society.

Don't be blind to it.

The Bigot Card is a wholly owned franchise of the Democratic Party and its affiliates. Any use without the prior written consent of George Soros or the DNC is prohibited.

J

[B-Fly]

Do any of the other folks on Jude's side of this argument agree with me?

I've taken the barbs of being called a bigot here for my view on homosexual activity. I don't agree that I'm a bigot, but this statement from one of the lefty in the group goes unchallenged by the ElD, Moonlight J, et.al. Perhaps you're brand of hate is no different, just on a group of people that you don't understand.

You're ignorance is no different than mine, just viewed on a different subset of society.

Don't be blind to it.

I guess I read Jude Baldo's post as an sarcastic tweak of the Southern stereotype, although sarcasm can be tough to convey in writing, so I can see how different readers might view it as pointedly wielding or invoking the stereotype. I've occasionally gotten myself into trouble with sarcastic one-liners that I intended as mocking/undercutting a stereotype, but that weren't taken that way. It would probably be safer to avoid that kind of humor, but sometimes I can't help myself.

[In the Corn]

The Bigot Card is a wholly owned franchise of the Democratic Party and its affiliates. Any use without the prior written consent of George Soros or the DNC is prohibited.

J

I'm not going to let that fly either, J. Bigotry is not a political characteristic.

[In the Corn]

I guess I read Jude Baldo's post as an sarcastic tweak of the Southern stereotype, although sarcasm can be tough to convey in writing, so I can see how different readers might view it as pointedly wielding or invoking the stereotype. I've occasionally gotten myself into trouble with sarcastic one-liners that I intended as mocking/undercutting a stereotype, but that weren't taken that way. It would probably be safer to avoid that kind of humor, but sometimes I can't help myself.

So if I make a comment that guy's a real c@cksucker about a gay person, I get a pass? Cause that's a sarcastic tweak on homosexuality?

Isn't a tweak at a stereotype veiled bigotry?

[B-Fly]

The Bigot Card is a wholly owned franchise of the Democratic Party and its affiliates. Any use without the prior written consent of George Soros or the DNC is prohibited.

J

Except when evoked by Clarence Thomas or Sarah Palin or Mitt Romney or any number of other conservatives. We're certainly at a point in our national politics where people on all sides allege bigotry. And often enough, in both directions, the allegations are correct, and often enough, in both directions, they're not.

[B-Fly]

So if I make a comment that guy's a real c@cksucker about a gay person, I get a pass? Cause that's a sarcastic tweak on homosexuality?

Isn't a tweak at a stereotype veiled bigotry?

It depends on the relationship among the parties to the discussion. I have friends with whom I always engage in sarcastic humor about our respective backgrounds/group affiliations, but we all know each other well and know each other's truly-held values and actions, because we've also had enough serious conversations about the "important questions". Outside of those kinds of friendship circles, however, those kinds of jokes are very dangerous because one is likely to offend.

[In the Corn]

It depends on the relationship among the parties to the discussion. I have friends with whom I always engage in sarcastic humor about our respective backgrounds/group affiliations, but we all know each other well and know each other's truly-held values and actions, because we've also had enough serious conversations about the "important questions". Outside of those kinds of friendship circles, however, those kinds of jokes are very dangerous because one is likely to offend.

Yup.

Now in my circles, when one of my friends makes a comment that is known to offend someone else there. I either call them out or take them off to the side and let them know their comment was out of line. Anyone willing to agree with me the Jude's comment was out of line?

[B-Fly]

So if I make a comment that guy's a real c@cksucker about a gay person, I get a pass? Cause that's a sarcastic tweak on homosexuality?

Isn't a tweak at a stereotype veiled bigotry?

More along the lines of, say, tweaking a close gay friend for wearing an oversized, dirty sweatshirt and saying they're going to take away his membership card. Saying "that guy's a c@cksucker" -- I guess I'd have to know the context, but it's harder to think of the way in which that tweaks a stereotype. With the southern illiterate cousin-f@cker comment, the tweak is that it's absurdist in that we all know lots of folks from the South and none of them remotely fit the stereotype. But I probably shouldn't be spending all of this energy defending it, since the lines of distinction are fine enough that it's a dangerous game to play.

[In the Corn]

More along the lines of, say, tweaking a close gay friend for wearing an oversized, dirty sweatshirt and saying they're going to take away his membership card. Saying "that guy's a c@cksucker" -- I guess I'd have to know the context, but it's harder to think of the way in which that tweaks a stereotype. With the southern illiterate cousin-f@cker comment, the tweak is that it's absurdist in that we all know lots of folks from the South and none of them remotely fit the stereotype. But I probably shouldn't be spending all of this energy defending it, since the lines of distinction are fine enough that it's a dangerous game to play.

So do you agree with me that it was out of line?

Brian, I don't think people understand that their very narrow view of evangelical Christians is just as wrong as many evangelical Christians views about homosexuals. Yet no one calls people out for their harsh words regarding the whole subset. Those comments are just as bigoted.

I appreciate that Bob, GITH and you stepped up to say you'd join me protest. ElD, DMT any others want to sign on?

Dairy Queen after the protest, and I'll even buy. And yes, you can get the large Blizzard.

[B-Fly]

So do you agree with me that it was out of line?

Brian, I don't think people understand that their very narrow view of evangelical Christians is just as wrong as many evangelical Christians views about homosexuals. Yet no one calls people out for their harsh words regarding the whole subset. Those comments are just as bigoted.

I appreciate that Bob, GITH and you stepped up to say you'd join me protest. ElD, DMT any others want to sign on?

Dairy Queen after the protest, and I'll even buy. And yes, you can get the large Blizzard.

I'm not sure I agree that it was out of line given the context. Jason, a Southerner who many of us know very well, made a frustrated "we" comment about conservative elected politicians in the South, and Jude replied with a "because y'all are a bunch of...[absurdist stereotype]" quip aimed at Jason, with a winking emoticon intended to underscore that he wasn't seriously suggesting that southerners are a bunch of [absurdist stereotype]. So while I'm not afraid to call out fellow liberals when I think they're engaging in bigotry, that's not how I interpret the Jason/Jude exchange.

That said, I would like to believe that I do not have a very narrow view of evangelical Christians and I think that's generally reflected in my communications here, although I've probably used some sarcasm in various of our debates. But you should see how often I evoke the thoughtful and humane evangelicals that I've met through RotoJunkie when I'm talking politics with insular groups of liberal New Yorkers.