Thoughts on Trayvon and Zimmerman...

[nots]

I thought the President's remarks were very good. He acknowledged the struggles in becoming a post racial society, but also seemed to send a preemptive shot against federal charges against GZ, saying it was a state and local matter and praising the judge.
Pretty good job at diffusing the situation by the POTUS.

[Judge Jude]

transcript here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obamas-remarks-on-trayvon-martin-full-transcript/2013/07/19/5e33ebea-f09a-11e2-a1f9-ea873b7e0424_story.html

most of it will be seen as rather reasonable by most, I think. He made a good-faith effort.

Obama just whiffed on two things:

- It's obvious that most people, on any side of the case, believe that "it's too bad that Zimmerman got out of his car after being ordered not to by a police officer, or none of this would have happened," which has numerous errors that I believe are now clear here.

- I suspect almost as many people don't even realize that Martin, by a significant amount of evidence, was beating up Zimmerman at one point.

Obama could have helped clarify the national dialogue significantly, while very much being able to go beyond those facts with other points:

- Should Zimmerman really have possessed a gun at all in this scenario? Could he have been more discreet in following even if one supports that idea (which plenty don't, of course)? Even though he didn't disobey anyone's command, was he really choosing the wisest path in the whole situation?

- Yes, it appears that Martin reacted violently and foolishly, but he was only 17, there is the understandable general frustration that Obama spoke about - and geesh, should he wind up dead for his mistake?

To be that all-encompassing would have been very impressively Presidential. Instead, I suspect that he mostly just boosted the ratings of talk shows for the next several days or at least gave them a revival of the topic.

[TopChuckie]

TopChuckie, really, Obama addressing this here is what you get from this? Why be proactively disgusting, we get you have a cement solid movie in your head of the actions that happened that fateful night, shaped by how every word has been filtered by your head, shaped by how your every day from birth till now has formed how your thoughts are processed. But snippy wise cracks to diminish the presidents words on this, to what end?

Because it's disingenuous. Unless he too would have felt justified in striking someone because they looked at him funny, or even gave him the impression they thought less of him because of the color of his skin, he is not the same as Trayvon, nor ever was. To say it is to raise up Trayvon as the innocent victim who could have one day been president, which in turn further vilifies an innocent man who is already fearing for his life. It's not right, and it's especially not right to do it for political purposes.

I will admit I didn't listen to or read his statement and only read an article that focused on the "I was him 35 years ago" part, admittedly a bit hypocritical of me considering what I've said in this thread about people getting their info from the media versus watching the actual trial, so if he did indeed say things that would imply federal charges are not warranted, then I give him kudos for that. He should be telling the masses that this case is over and we all need to move on, not continuing to fan the flames of hate.

[chancellor]

- Yes, it appears that Martin reacted violently and foolishly, but he was only 17, there is the understandable general frustration that Obama spoke about - and geesh, should he wind up dead for his mistake?

Because, gosh, 17 year olds don't know that you can't go around beating on people and bashing their heads into concrete?

[Frank]

Very interesting. I would guess that the average Minnesota jury would be more intelligent and sophisticated than in some places I've been. I wonder if that has something to do with it...the lawyers being more comfortable that the jury won't hold it against their client if he doesn't testify.

There are so many variables when you talk about different parts of the country. What kind of cases wind up going to trial, how well the police have documented their cases, local rules of criminal procedure, quality of defendant, quality of lawyers, public defenders vs. private counsel, etc. Around here, juries seem to be very tough in drug cases, less so in others.

Arkansas, like many places, has bifurcated trials. If the defendant is found guilty, there is a second hearing on the penalty. That penalty phase is generally where the evidence of prior criminal conduct comes in. And defendants testify in the penalty phase almost always, asking for lenience, etc. I like bifurcation. Guilt/innocence should be a separate issue from penalty.

Especially in St Cloud

Anyway - it's always intelligent to consider the IQ of the geography and potential jury pool prior to considering and committing your felony.

[Roto Rooter]

Because, gosh, 17 year olds don't know that you can't go around beating on people and bashing their heads into concrete?

17 year olds that are raised right know this.

If Martin's parents put as much effort into raising him better as they are putting into avenging his death he'd still be alive.

[chancellor]

17 year olds that are raised right know this.

If Martin's parents put as much effort into raising him better as they are putting into avenging his death he'd still be alive.

I won't go that far. While I believe almost every 17 year old knows that, regardless of how well or poorly they're raised, there's plenty of parents who have done the best they can and still had 17-year olds who committed felonies.

On a different aside, as I expected, the Tampa Bay Times has compiled a database of "Stand Your Ground" cases. The summary is pretty interesting - about 1/3rd of the cases where "Stand Your Ground" is claimed is by black defendants. That's about double the rate of the black population. The percentage where black defendants are successful is slightly higher than white defendants, though I can't say with certainty that it's statistically significant. So, if black activists are successful in revoking Stand Your Ground, they will harm....black defendants at a much higher rate relative to the population than any other ethnic group.

The TB Times database is here: http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-g...aw/fatal-cases

[Roto Rooter]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/22/19618495-zimmerman-emerges-to-help-family-from-burning-car-in-sanford-fla?lite

Police say George Zimmerman helped rescue a family trapped in a burning vehicle on a Florida highway last week, Zimmerman's first known public sighting since his acquittal in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

What an asshole

[Roto Rooter]

[Frank]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPU39P0CYAAjzUj.jpg]

Well....I believe most responses to this thread have lost perspective and is rapidly deteriorating .

[johnnya24]

It's a mad world ... Zimmerman can carry a concealed weapon in public, without any formal training, and use it to kill in "self defense" (or irrational fear, or accidental discharge, or any amount of unjustifiable reasons). Danny Nightingale, a serving 18 year SAS veteran, gets a suspended jail sentence for possession of a Glock 9, and is "forced" out of the army on "medical" grounds (they originally wanted to dishonourably discharge him before a public outcry made them back track).

[heyelander]

Our country's history is rife with examples of young white girls not getting any media attention and having their cases dismissed by the police and district attorney's office. I'm sure these kids will get off scot free. Just another example of social bias here in this country. You shouldn't be the least bit surprised.

[Judge Jude]

http://www.tmz.com/2013/07/31/george-zimmerman-speeding-traffic-stop-gun-firearm-texas/

"George Zimmerman is still armed and theoretically dangerous ... he was stopped by cops for speeding and revealed he had a gun in his glove compartment.

Zimmerman was speeding in Forney, Texas on Sunday, just after noon, when he was stopped by police. Zimmerman told cops he was headed "nowhere in particular," and informed them he had a firearm in his glove compartment.

Zimmerman was given a warning, after cops determined he was free of warrants. He was sent on his way with a polite goodbye, "Have a safe trip."

The stop lasted around 5 minutes."

[Lucky]

I can confirm that if you are in Forney, Texas, you are headed nowhere in particular.

[chancellor]

I can confirm that if you are in Forney, Texas, you are headed nowhere in particular.

LOL...I've worked there...must agree.