Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[chancellor]

The Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009 (H.R. 3590) was submitted on 17 September 2009 and vote on 8 October 2009. At well over 1000 pages, there was barely time to read it, much less vet it.

Even if we were to accept the idea that a whole team of GOP staff lawyers couldn't digest a thousand pages in three weeks, that doesn't explain why the GOP Reps voted for the measure.

Being equal handed, it merely proved that there's GOP legislators who are stupid, too. ��

[GwynnInTheHall]

We will agree to disagree here. It's one thing to have a framework, and hammer out details in committee. It's another to announce and not even have a framework for how the bill gets funded. Politically, I think that's suicide for a bill. Now, everybody from every political angle will be taking their shots at it, and it'll end up too toxic to pursue. And the Dems, more than likely, will be handed some juicy sound bites from the right, and they'll use those to justify not progressing. So, not pursuing the bill becomes a win-win - Dems don't do anything to piss off any of their core groups, and will almost certainly get political ammo to use against the GOP in the upcoming elections.

We will. I can only refer to the fact that California has found a way to pull things together and work them out. As the leading progressive state in the Union, they've managed to overcome their bugles. Though they still fight their self created issues, they're way ahead of the pack. If Single Payer, Universal healthcare can work--you'll see it work in Cali.

[Kevin Seitzer]

That would be the reconciliation bill. Same problem, different day.

J

You're telling me that between September and March, nobody had time to read 1000 pages?

[cardboardbox]

On a serious, non snarky note, i was interested in the CA universal health care experiment. I think individual states can be labs for the validity of many diffenent ideas, without exposing the entire country to them. Some may work and some may not (see the job killing $15/hr Seattle minimum wage as an example) but if a state wants to try something outside the box, i woukd look forward to processing the resuts. CA is a big state--its a great lab for universal health care

although I would expect failure, thats pretty much what I meant when I said I was interested in the experiment.

[onejayhawk]

You're telling me that between September and March, nobody had time to read 1000 pages?

Not the same pages. IIRC the reconciliation bill was not even printed the day before the vote. So, no one could fully read and comment on the final form of the bill, specifically none of the last minute changes, prior to the vote. The Senate Bill had significant differences and there could be entirely new items added. On that scale, the three weeks for the first run is generous.

J

[Hornsby]

This needs no comment from me...

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office released its analysis of the GOP’s Senate health care bill on Monday. The Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017 would cut $772 billion from Medicaid over the next decade, and 15 million fewer people would be on the program’s rolls. Overall, 28 million Americans are projected to be without insurance in 2026 under current law; the CBO says it would be 49 million people under the Senate bill.

[GwynnInTheHall]

This needs no comment from me...

Yeah, who would have thought killing off the poor and elderly would reduce the deficit..................

[swampdragon]

Yeah, who would have thought killing off the poor and elderly would reduce the deficit..................

they can't vote then either - and this is still tolerated by many - amazing

[swampdragon]

Fox News web site headlines right now

SCENE OF THE CRIME
Movement seen at Syrian air base where last chemical attack originated

White House says Syria potentially prepping another chemical attack
VIDEO: Trump administration warns Syria about consequences of using chemical weapons
Russia accuses US of provocation over Syria warning
Syria needs Iran and Russia's approval to use chemical warfare, Gen. Keane says
Airstrike on ISIS-run jail in eastern Syria kills 42, activists say


wait here it is towards the bottom

Senate health bill would lower deficit, increase number of uninsured, CBO says
- WH criticizes CBO report, cites 'history of inaccuracy'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...mate-says.html

so stupids - worry about Syria - not about losing your health insurance

[Sour Masher]

Senate health bill would lower deficit, increase number of uninsured, CBO says
- WH criticizes CBO report, cites 'history of inaccuracy'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...mate-says.html

so stupids - worry about Syria - not about losing your health insurance

This CBO inaccuracy spin amazes me. I want journalists to press law makers on this--let's grant them the CBO may be off. By how many? 2 million, 5, 10? Be supeer generous and go with 10, and have those GOP politicians look into the camera as the the remaining 10-20 million off of insurance is an acceptable number.

[Hodor]

This CBO inaccuracy spin amazes me. I want journalists to press law makers on this--let's grant them the CBO may be off. By how many? 2 million, 5, 10? Be supeer generous and go with 10, and have those GOP politicians look into the camera as the the remaining 10-20 million off of insurance is an acceptable number.

It'd be a surprise if it mattered at all. Most of the people supporting trump and this administration already view those who can't afford to pay for their own health care, lazy freeloaders.

[Sour Masher]

It'd be a surprise if it mattered at all. Most of the people supporting trump and this administration already view those who can't afford to pay for their own health care, lazy freeloaders.

I guess that is what allows them to justify supporting politicians willing to let them die. I'd love it if someone forced a politician into admitting it though. I've love it if someone asked Trump et al, "which do you think will cause more pain, suffering, and death-- 1. terrorists and illegal immigrants committing crime, or 2. This health care legislation?" The math is undeniable on which is the right answer, and I'd like to know how any of them justify spending so much time, money, and words on the former, while trying to push this through.

[TranaGreg]

It'd be a surprise if it mattered at all. Most of the people supporting trump and this administration already view those who can't afford to pay for their own health care, lazy freeloaders.

yeah, this is my take as well ... in that light whether the number is 28 million or 49 million is irrelevant

[Hodor]

I guess that is what allows them to justify supporting politicians willing to let them die. I'd love it if someone forced a politician into admitting it though. I've love it if someone asked Trump et al, "which do you think will cause more pain, suffering, and death-- 1. terrorists and illegal immigrants committing crime, or 2. This health care legislation?" The math is undeniable on which is the right answer, and I'd like to know how any of them justify spending so much time, money, and words on the former, while trying to push this through.

There are those who would say that one American death because of terrorism is one too many and are OK spending hundreds of billions to prevent ONE death. However, many of those same folks will fight tooth and nail against spending one dime preventing thousands of American deaths due to lack of health care or poverty.

[senorsheep]

Most of the people supporting trump and this administration already view those who can't afford to pay for their own health care, lazy freeloaders.

Indeed. You'd think they'd be a bit more cautious with their ludicrous characterizations - you can really run into trouble making idiotic generalizations about large groups of people like that.

I have to admit, though, it does give me pause... Even though the vast majority of people who oppose universal health care are clearly greedy sociopaths who would like to see the lazy poor ground into mulch to fertilize the perfectly manicured grounds of their estates so that their show ponies might prance more proudly, every once in awhile I'll hear one of the more educated and less eeeeeevil among them say something that sounds almost fair and sensible, like...

They have doubts about the government's ability to effectively and efficiently manage such a complex system, and would like to see it play out at the state level first; or,

They have concerns that the reduction and/or removal of competitive practices, profit motives, and private innovation will drive higher costs and damage the quality of the delivery of service; or,

They fear that the health care industry will become bogged down in the swamp of government corruption, cronyism, and back room special interest sleaze; or,

They have apprehension about things like:

- Lessened patient flexibility and choice.
- Free/ subsidized care leading to higher consumption of services and exploding costs that will outstrip the hoped-for cost reduction associated with better preventative care.
- Government mandates impeding doctor flexibility, leading to poorer quality of overall patient care.
- The removal of personal behavioral incentives to take responsibility for one's own health.
- Reduced incentives to pursue medical research, development, and investment.
- The government passing additional restrictions and tax increases on smoking and fast food, leading to an erosion of personal freedoms.
- Health care services, drugs, equipment, etc. may become subject to rationing by the government, leading to unintended consequences like unacceptable waits for treatment.
- Once a government benefit is taken as a right by the public, it becomes virtually impossible to undo it or rein it in later if the costs should spiral out of control.

Assuming you believe that respectful acknowledgement of reasonable concerns like those might better advance us to a place of understanding and compromise, how would you appeal to those folks to join your side in the universal health care cause?