Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[cardboardbox]

Why on earth would you project your own family's experience on to everyone? It sounds like your family is pretty healthy which is great, and a sample of ONE.

because we are probably around the median age for families of four. There are plenty of younger, healthier people than me who are paying less.

Because most people have small emergencies, medications, kids, and the like. I have one medication that costs $1800.00 every two weeks...I pay 5 bucks a dose. THAT'S why the cost of health care averages over 25 grand per family.

You're damn lucky to be healthy...one small appendectomy, or a MRI, and boom, you're well on the way to that figure, if not over.

Well at least I know where my insurance premiums are going, lol.

Actually I'm not very healthy at all its just that I haven't found a doctor that can fix me yet so I just dont go to them anymore.

I could get 4 MRI's a month and still not reach $26,000 a year, including my $1200/mo insurance premium.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Again, I dont see how people are spending that much. Even if I estimate we spend $300/mo on top of insurance costs, we're still almost $8000 under that weirdly high average Lucky posted.

And the real amount we spend in addition to insurance is probably under $200/mo in a year we use insurance, meaning we met deductible. Some years we dont use it at all other than a few office visits.

You're assuming people work somewhere where health coverage is provided as an employment benefit. What about those who get none of that or don't work? You can't get Medicae on Unemployment and MOST jobs nowadays , especially in Right to work states, are giving you 30 hours to avoid offering healthcare.

It's THESE people who get screwed in every scenario.

[Redbirds Fan]

because we are probably around the median age for families of four. There are plenty of younger, healthier people than me who are paying less.

Well at least I know where my insurance premiums are going, lol.

Actually I'm not very healthy at all its just that I haven't found a doctor that can fix me yet so I just dont go to them anymore.

I could get 4 MRI's a month and still not reach $26,000 a year, including my $1200/mo insurance premium.

A lumbar MRI with contrast at a hospital runs a minimum of $1500 here, closer to $2000. Brain runs $2500 or more. You can get it done cheaper at radiology clinics, but if it is pre-surgery, the surgeon usually wants it done at hospital (supposedly so they know it will be done right).

[cardboardbox]

A lumbar MRI with contrast at a hospital runs a minimum of $1500 here, closer to $2000. Brain runs $2500 or more. You can get it done cheaper at radiology clinics, but if it is pre-surgery, the surgeon usually wants it done at hospital (supposedly so they know it will be done right).

I thought we were talking about how someone would get to $26k/yr if they had insurance. Last year I paid 20% of the cost after meeting $1k deductible which meant an MRI was about $100 if deductible was met. This year its $250 for an MRI regardless of deductible. This year it also sucks more than last since I'm on an HMO now.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Another issue with no coverage is prescriptions.

You can't always get what you need for free or at a discount if you have no coverage.

For Example. I was prescribed a topical steroid for my Psoriasis once it was diagnosed. When it was first diagnosed, I had no coverage because I hadn't reached the qualify date for benefits, the cost was $75 a tube, which were about the size of a small super glue tube. You had to buy packs of three so it was $250 bucks. After I had coverage, you got all three for a $10 co pay.

For the $250 I had to go without, I could cover the co pay.

There are others in more extreme situations where their medication is more dire in need and the cost far greater than a tube of topicals.


They need to have these things available at a cost they can afford. They should have these things available in any case. To do otherwise is immoral.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I don’t think that any service the government has to force someone else to provide me – is necessarily a right. The Declaration of Independence that our Creator endows us unalienable rights among them being Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. To secure these rights – Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
Nowhere does it say that Life, Liberty or the Pursuit of Happiness will be done in health or without pain or that everyone will start at the same place or should end up at the same place.

I pay my taxes – and believe that the government wastefully spends my money on many programs. I do care, but I am not willing to go to jail for not paying my taxes.


Not true – in the generation that I grew up in Many kids wanted to be doctors because they could be rich and they wouldn’t have to struggle to get by like their parents did.

Nowhere does it say that Life, Liberty or the Pursuit of Happiness will be done in health or without pain or that everyone will start at the same place or should end up at the same place. Life is not easy and it is not fair, governments should not be trying to make it that way.

Then in your world, food and water should also be free as it is the most basic of necessities. Yet we require people to purchase their breakfast, lunch and dinner along with the drinks that accompany those meals. We also generally allow restaurants determine who they will or will not serve.

We will disagree on so much of this.

First, though you are right that Life can be hard, it SHOULD be fair. To say it's not, is an excuse people use to avoid acknowledging those who abuse the system and others to gain an advantage.

Which is WHY the Govt. must step in and do the right thing when others will not. People are basically good, but as we've seen, there are those who will shirk their social contract and never give back, take care of or otherwise do anything but TAKE from society. That is why we have programs to cover that gap.

As for your taxes, I intended for you to get the fact that if I have to allow my taxes to toward things I disagree with, like addition defense spending, subsidies for corporations, etc. YOU can tolerate your taxes going toward things you don;t support because again--we're all in this together-like it or not.

Why you chose to do something, like become a doctor, doesn't change what the profession was meant to be. Doctors are healers, it's what the professions was created to be--Not profit generators. That it has become a lucrative profession does not change what it was intended to be. THAT intent was to CARE for others and HEAL them. NOT to make a dollar off doing so.

Yes, feeding people who can't afford it is a part of the societal contract. I'm not saying make it all free because most folks can afford much of what we're advocating to be basic rights, but to deny people food, water and health care because they can't afford it is again--Immoral. And frankly you should be thankful there are programs that do just that as when there are not, you put people in a position to either starve or resort to criminal activity to get what they need.

[mjl]

I seriously can't believe you people are still complaining about the World's Greatest Healthcare Plan. I mean, it's right there in the name.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1275/text

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; PURPOSES; TABLE OF CONTENTS.
(a) Short Title.—This Act may be cited as the “World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017”.

[Redbirds Fan]

I think healthcare is a right and I think we live in a society, which means--we share responsibility for maintaining it.

I don’t think that any service the government has to force someone else to provide me – is necessarily a right. The Declaration of Independence that our Creator endows us unalienable rights among them being Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. To secure these rights – Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
Nowhere does it say that Life, Liberty or the Pursuit of Happiness will be done in health or without pain or that everyone will start at the same place or should end up at the same place.

Your taxes pay for things you don't care about as do mine.
I pay my taxes – and believe that the government wastefully spends my money on many programs. I do care, but I am not willing to go to jail for not paying my taxes.

Becoming a doctor is about caring for your fellow man, healthwise NOT about making money that's why they have to take an oath to DO NO HARM.

Not true – in the generation that I grew up in Many kids wanted to be doctors because they could be rich and they wouldn’t have to struggle to get by like their parents did.

Withholding healthcare if you're a doctor is doing harm--Period. The founding fathers thought that LIFE was/is a right. To that extent our government and those who are citizens must find a way to make sure people get the care they need to live that life.

Nowhere does it say that Life, Liberty or the Pursuit of Happiness will be done in health or without pain or that everyone will start at the same place or should end up at the same place. Life is not easy and it is not fair, governments should not be trying to make it that way.

Now you might completely disagree with many or all of what I've said--and that's ok, but I'll leave you with this. If you continually deprive people of basic necessities , they will find a way to get them--Survival instinct outstrips lawfulness.

Then in your world, food and water should also be free as it is the most basic of necessities. Yet we require people to purchase their breakfast, lunch and dinner along with the drinks that accompany those meals. We also generally allow restaurants determine who they will or will not serve.

Just a couple of legal bits here...as I have mentioned a few times before, the Declaration had zero binding effect upon anything. Unlike the Constitution, it was not a legal document. It was an aspirational document, essentially a postcard to the King of England.

Also, we don't generally allow restaurants to determine who they will or will not serve. This isn't 1960.

[baldgriff]

I dont believe I was the one that brought up the Declaration - I was just answering the point raised. Restaurants are not required to serve everyone - can tell people to leave and choose to serve whomever they want. Jim Crow on the other hand was the government forcing restaurants to keep blacks out of white areas - which is reprehensible and was repealed in the mid 1960's.

[Hodor]

I dont believe I was the one that brought up the Declaration - I was just answering the point raised. Restaurants are not required to serve everyone - can tell people to leave and choose to serve whomever they want. Jim Crow on the other hand was the government forcing restaurants to keep blacks out of white areas - which is reprehensible and was repealed in the mid 1960's.

Actually, they can, but then they can be and have been sued for doing so for other than public safety reasons.

Edit. Blaming Jim crow laws on government without explanation is just bullshit and you know it.

[baldgriff]

Actually, they can, but then they can be and have been sued for doing so for other than public safety reasons.

Edit. Blaming Jim crow laws on government without explanation is just bullshit and you know it.

I wasnt the one that brought up the 1960's - The 1960's was at time when governments forced businesses to either exclude or segregate specific racial groups from being served. This was horrible policy and again was struck down in 1965.

Government has no business telling/forcing business owner's to serve who or who they cant serve. The idea is that business owners should be able to partake in as many consensual transactions that they want too. Should they choose not to do enough consensual transactions they will likely go out of business because customers will go elsewhere.

[bryanbutler]

I seriously can't believe you people are still complaining about the World's Greatest Healthcare Plan. I mean, it's right there in the name.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1275/text

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; PURPOSES; TABLE OF CONTENTS.
(a) Short Title.—This Act may be cited as the “World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017”.

yes, but note the "of 2017" qualifier.

reminds me of the simpson's movie. "It's the worst day of your life, so far."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfpPArfDTGw

[Hodor]

I wasnt the one that brought up the 1960's - The 1960's was at time when governments forced businesses to either exclude or segregate specific racial groups from being served. This was horrible policy and again was struck down in 1965.

Government has no business telling/forcing business owner's to serve who or who they cant serve. The idea is that business owners should be able to partake in as many consensual transactions that they want too. Should they choose not to do enough consensual transactions they will likely go out of business because customers will go elsewhere.

This is a disingenuous argument. It was racists who happened to be in government that allowed Jim crow to exist and it was NON racists in government that ended it. And yes, until mankind automatically defers to doing the right thing, there needs to be regulations to make sure the right thing is done.

I mean unless you want to live in a Mad Max world.

[swampdragon]

Government has no business telling/forcing business owner's to serve who or who they cant serve. The idea is that business owners should be able to partake in as many consensual transactions that they want too. Should they choose not to do enough consensual transactions they will likely go out of business because customers will go elsewhere.

Do you really believe this or are you trying to stir up trouble?

I don't remember - what kind of job do you have or where do you work? does this apply to your daily business?

[cardboardbox]

I seriously can't believe you people are still complaining about the World's Greatest Healthcare Plan. I mean, it's right there in the name.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...bill/1275/text

someone in congress has a sense of humor at least.