Affordable Health Care Law under review by SCOTUS

[baldgriff]

Agree to disagree.....

[baldgriff]

I understand.


Different question. Would you agree there are many "Christians" who would say those NOT voting those planks weren't really Christian at all?

GITH -
This is a good question.

I would say that there is a strong likelihood that there are Christians who would say if I dont vote solely on the abortion plank or the gay marriage plank or vote specifically for a Christian - then I am not one.....

Shoot - I am sure that there are plenty that say Im not anyway.

[Gregg]

GITH -
This is a good question.

I would say that there is a strong likelihood that there are Christians who would say if I dont vote solely on the abortion plank or the gay marriage plank or vote specifically for a Christian - then I am not one.....

Shoot - I am sure that there are plenty that say Im not anyway.

I have had this argument with a good friend and Christian brother specifically on the abortion issue. He is of the mind that you cannot be a real Christian if you vote for a candidate that supports abortion. As much as I am against abortion I disagree with him. I would guess that he is not alone.

[B-Fly]

I have had this argument with a good friend and Christian brother specifically on the abortion issue. He is of the mind that you cannot be a real Christian if you vote for a candidate that supports abortion. As much as I am against abortion I disagree with him. I would guess that he is not alone.

In my neck of the woods, we're often choosing between a pro-choice Democrat and a pro-choice Republican. Would a "real Christian" have to find a minor party pro-life candidate to vote for, or could he actually examine the candidate's positions on other issues?

[baldgriff]

Again, it is not mine to judge any individual faith commitment. It is between them and God.

How that faith is projected in the realm of determining which candidate is the best is likewise - between themselves and God. I know individuals that first and foremost vote for candidates that espouse to be Christians. How we know whether they are and how committed they are - is really not that simple as politics these days is all about public persona and marketing yourself. Candidates become charicature's of what they think their constituents want to see.

[B-Fly]

Again, it is not mine to judge any individual faith commitment. It is between them and God.

How that faith is projected in the realm of determining which candidate is the best is likewise - between themselves and God. I know individuals that first and foremost vote for candidates that espouse to be Christians. How we know whether they are and how committed they are - is really not that simple as politics these days is all about public persona and marketing yourself. Candidates become charicature's of what they think their constituents want to see.

Presumably, however, in today's political climate, the "candidates that espouse to be Christians" are doing more than just proudly identifying their faith, but are also signaling at set of moral/political beliefs and positions - ones that presumably align with the assessing voter's own moral/political beliefs and positions. No? Or are there still candidates out there like Jimmy Carter who self-identify as evangelical Christians but who still largely embrace the Democratic party's platform?

I would never vote for someone just because he indicates that he is Jewish, because that identification wouldn't really tell me anything about where he stands on the issues I care about.

[johnnya24]

Ban abortion ... then this happens 20 times per week

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal

Health authorities in Ireland are investigating the death of a pregnant woman whose husband says she was denied an abortion following severe complications.Savita Halappanavar, who was 17 weeks pregnant, died of septicaemia a week after presenting with back pain on 21 October at University hospital in Galway, where she was found to be miscarrying.

After the 31-year-old dentist was told that she was miscarrying, her husband reportedly said that she had asked for a medical termination a number of times over a three day period, during which she was in severe pain.

But he said these requests were denied because a foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told at one point: "This is a Catholic country."

Result: ban on abortion overturned ... as it probably will be in Ireland as a result of the fall out from this incident.

Non-issue.

[baldgriff]

Who said anything about banning abortion??

[johnnya24]

Who said anything about banning abortion??

So it's just a political thing ... finding people with the same outlook?

[baldgriff]

Eld -
The conversation lately has been about Christians and the planks they vote on (abortion included) - Libertarian viewpoint - and recently is someone a Christian if they vote for other than a candidate that is Pro-Life....

Maybe I missed the segue into banning abortion.


I dont deny that the Republican party is Pro-Life. You guys keep hammering on Christians that they will vote for the Pro-Life party (above all else - at least thats what it seems like). I think the results of the election show that there are plenty of Christians out here that dont vote Republican or are at least capable of weighing more factors than one plank.

[DMT]

I have a friend from HS who is one of these silly 'one-issue' voters. On election night he posted he was physically ill (this is after posting pics of him and his 6 kids sitting around the TV for an election-party, doh) that Obama had won. I couldn't resist and responded. He then proceeded to say that Obama was the worst person in the world for 'pro-life' voters because he was the leader of some pro-abortion group before he was President. I then called BS and also noted that Obama had not signed one bill while President to increase abortions, and also said I hoped he was not one of the nuts who thought all abortions should be illegal, which of course he is. I told him to talk to some rape victims before claiming the moral high ground. He never responded.

What I found interesting is that a bunch of his Christian friends then jumped in and told him his views were extreme. Also, one of our mutual friends posted a video clip of Romney espousing 'pro-choice' views before becoming 'pro-life' as a presidential candidate. For the abortion-only voters, wouldn't there absolute stance on the issue prevent them from voting for Romney who clearly was not a true 'pro-lifer' given his past? In other words, is voting for the 'lesser of two evils' morally acceptable when dealing with the absolute immorality of abortion?

[DMT]

I also responded in that FB exchange that I am personally morally opposed to abortion, but think it is absolute nonsense to expect one's own personal morality to be applied to everyone else. Similarly I am personally morally in favor of the death penalty, but am against it as a social policy due to the blatant classist and racist bias with which it is applied. It makes me physically ill that that POS Laughner will be living on the tax=payer dime until he dies. (For those who missed it, he pled guilty in exchange for a life-sentence without possibility for parole).

[Gregg]

In my neck of the woods, we're often choosing between a pro-choice Democrat and a pro-choice Republican. Would a "real Christian" have to find a minor party pro-life candidate to vote for, or could he actually examine the candidate's positions on other issues?

That is a great question. I will ask him tonight.

Personally I am not sure what I would do. Do I knowingly "waste" a vote on a candidate that I know cannot win? Maybe?

One thing that is hard to explain or convey on a web site is the deep emotion that is tied to the little ones that are robbed of life. Those that are pro abortion do not view this as anything more than just business as usual. So let's accept it and move on to the next politcal topic.

I know this example is a little too extreme, but I can't think of another one at this time. It would be like asking you to choose between the life of your child and getting all the rest of your politcal beliefs come to pass. Faced with that choice, I doubt the rest of the politcal issues would be that important.

On the other hand it would seem that this election for the Repubs was more about voting for the lesser evil. So what do I know.

[B-Fly]

On the other hand it would seem that this election was more about voting for the lesser evil.

Not for me. I very much like the guy I voted for.

[Gregg]

Not for me. I very much like the guy I voted for.

Should have said for the Repubs. I went back and fixed it.