Obama reelection 2012

[JudeBaldo]

Fanny and Freddy? I thought they were broke.

J

Clearly someone doesn't understand multi-level investment tranches or derivatives. Because only someone who did not understand them would blame FannIE and FreddIE.

[dslaw]

Fanny and Freddy? I thought they were broke.

J

They both had a profit last quarter, larger than the cash dividend they had to pay to the treasury. They still owe about $150 billion to the treasury so they aren't in good shape but it was a good quarter.

[onejayhawk]

Clearly someone doesn't understand multi-level investment tranches or derivatives. Because only someone who did not understand them would blame FannIE and FreddIE.

You must be talking about the FNMA and FHLMC. I was referring the the Brewstermeyersons.

J

[Hornsby]

Romney picks Paul Ryan for VP...I guess that it's better than Pawlenty, but I doubt it does anything more than tube Ryan's career.

[JudeBaldo]

You must be talking about the FNMA and FHLMC. I was referring the the Brewstermeyersons.

J

What the hell are you talking about?

[Erik]

What the hell are you talking about?

If I didn't look at the username and avatar, I would have thought that was a nullnor post.

[Judge Jude]

http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainment/ci_21329158/review-betrayal-american-dream-analyzes-how-middle-class

That's a link to an LA Times book review of 'Betrayal of the American Dream" by one of journalism's most decorated investigative teams (and yes, they used to make a mean wine cooler as well. #notreally)

"Bartlett and Steele pinpoint the moment when this America began to disappear as June 1979. More people were employed at U.S. factory jobs at that time than during any month before or since. About the same time, the share that the wealthiest Americans paid in taxes began to fall sharply.

American factory jobs soon started migrating to Mexico, and then to China. Not long afterward, all sorts of other tasks once performed by the guy next door -- including your friendly customer service representative -- were performed elsewhere, such as Bangalore, India, and Taipei, Taiwan.

Since then, three decades of laissez-faire business strategies and government policies have undercut the American middle class and the underpinnings of American democracy. At least, that's the central argument of "The Betrayal of the American Dream," a book that's essential reading for those trying to make sense of our country's current malaise."

...........

Is this seen by the right as oversimplification?
Or is this premise non-controversial?
am curious

[GwynnInTheHall]

http://www.mercurynews.com/entertain...w-middle-class

That's a link to an LA Times book review of 'Betrayal of the American Dream" by one of journalism's most decorated investigative teams (and yes, they used to make a mean wine cooler as well. #notreally)

"Bartlett and Steele pinpoint the moment when this America began to disappear as June 1979. More people were employed at U.S. factory jobs at that time than during any month before or since. About the same time, the share that the wealthiest Americans paid in taxes began to fall sharply.

American factory jobs soon started migrating to Mexico, and then to China. Not long afterward, all sorts of other tasks once performed by the guy next door -- including your friendly customer service representative -- were performed elsewhere, such as Bangalore, India, and Taipei, Taiwan.

Since then, three decades of laissez-faire business strategies and government policies have undercut the American middle class and the underpinnings of American democracy. At least, that's the central argument of "The Betrayal of the American Dream," a book that's essential reading for those trying to make sense of our country's current malaise."

...........

Is this seen by the right as oversimplification?
Or is this premise non-controversial?
am curious

I'm sure there's more to it, but it's my biggest issue with the so called 1% and corporate America. If you live here, run your companies here use Americans to do the job and keep your assets in America--stop avoiding taxes by shipping everything, including your wealth overseas. The corporate taxes used to be over 25% of all tax income in the US, now it's barely 7% you want to know where the jobs have gone and why there's less and less money to run the country--Start right here.

[chancellor]

Since then, three decades of laissez-faire business strategies and government policies have undercut the American middle class and the underpinnings of American democracy. At least, that's the central argument of "The Betrayal of the American Dream," a book that's essential reading for those trying to make sense of our country's current malaise."

Curious? Hell, look it up JJ. It's so provably and categorically false that it ought to be obvious to a person of your experience. Laissez-faire business strategies? Since 1980? Come on, really? Compare OSHA regs from 1980 to today. Compare state and federal environmental regs from 1980 to today. Compare reporting requirements for corporations from 1980 to today. And on and on.

It's debateable whether all the added regulations are good or bad, but that's there's considerably more government interference in business than 30-odd years ago is beyond doubt.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Curious? Hell, look it up JJ. It's so provably and categorically false that it ought to be obvious to a person of your experience. Laissez-faire business strategies? Since 1980? Come on, really? Compare OSHA regs from 1980 to today. Compare state and federal environmental regs from 1980 to today. Compare reporting requirements for corporations from 1980 to today. And on and on.

It's debateable whether all the added regulations are good or bad, but that's there's considerably more government interference in business than 30-odd years ago is beyond doubt.

And more corporate interference/influence in Govt as well.

[Judge Jude]

Chance,
I was looking more at the concept that the wealthy started getting better and better off, vs "regular Joes" winding up flat or behind. Is that an area of debate, both to the extent it has/hasn't happened, why, and when?

I see your point about regulations.

[Judge Jude]

Well, I shouldn't have chosen to include that 'laissez-faire' mention, because it has proven a distraction/dead end.

I'd rather hear input on the main point on timing of dawn of American jobs going overseas + rich getting a lot richer, because I wondered if that got less lost in the traditional ying vs yang of political debate.

[onejayhawk]

One thing has always bothered me. Iif you have economic growth over simple population expansion, it is necessary for the richest to get further from the poorest. This is simple arithmatic. There is a floor at zero. For there to be expansion, the top must go up. When a tree grows, the top goes up. Very simple.

However, many people view this as a bad thing. What is with that?

J

[B-Fly]

Chance,
I was looking more at the concept that the wealthy started getting better and better off, vs "regular Joes" winding up flat or behind. Is that an area of debate, both to the extent it has/hasn't happened, why, and when?

Rich getting richer has happened. I'm not sure whether "regular Joes" are flat or behind where they were back in 1979, though. I guess I'd need a clearer definition of "regular Joe" and more clarity on the standard against which we're measuring whether they're rising, flatlining or falling back. My intuitive sense is that the biggest problem for "regular Joes" now versus then is that it costs much more to obtain the same 'utility' today as it did then. And that some of that is tied to higher basic cost of living while some of it is tied to higher expectations.

[onejayhawk]

Rich getting richer has happened. I'm not sure whether "regular Joes" are flat or behind where they were back in 1979, though. I guess I'd need a clearer definition of "regular Joe" and more clarity on the standard against which we're measuring whether they're rising, flatlining or falling back. My intuitive sense is that the biggest problem for "regular Joes" now versus then is that it costs much more to obtain the same 'utility' today as it did then. And that some of that is tied to higher basic cost of living while some of it is tied to higher expectations.

One problem you will run into is that the group is there, but most of the names have changed.

J