Obama reelection 2012

[GwynnInTheHall]

Since when does adding national debt outweigh the moral cost of wars of aggression, complete with the loss of well over 100,000 civilian lives?

F*ck the stupid debt. Get people back to work and stop killing everyone all over the world. Passing the debt off on Obama as if he was anything other than in a totally untenable situation when he took office is shortsighted and shallow.

Posted in another thread but relevant here as well: “This country does in fact have a serious deficit problem. But the reality is that the deficit was caused by two wars - unpaid for. It was caused by huge tax breaks for the wealthiest people in the country. It was caused by a recession as a result of the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior on Wall Street. And if those are the causes of the deficit, I will be damned if we’re going to balance the budget on the backs of the elderly, the sick, the children, and the poor. That’s wrong.” - Bernie Sanders

Exactly.

[chancellor]

That's because Bush was an utter failure and lied us into War and IMO he hurt the Nation both here and abroad. What has Obama done that's even remotely comparable? And before you say it, Yes I'm not happy with Obama's term to date, but not because he has failed the country, but because he's failed to do as much as he promised to the extent he promised.

Uh, no, he's failed the country completely.

The Bush administration may well have lied, but let's not forget Congress - including the Dems - enabled him to do so, many with information every bit as good in front of them. The Obama administration didn't even get Congressional approval for actions in Libya or Yemen. We're muddling through in Afghanistan due to little plan and much aimless action.

The Obama administration has been even worse than the Bush administration in terms of expanding executive power, warrantless searches (just lost a SCOTUS case on this, BTW), wiretapping, and are holding vastly more in Bagram under Habeus-free detention than the Bush administration ever did. The punitive measures taken against whistleblowers is far harsher in the Obama administration than the Bush admin.

The economic failures of the Obama administration are near legend. The stimulus package was to have unemployment down to 6.5% today according the the administration's own economists. Bernie Sanders quote is laughable in light of Larry Summers 57-page memo released that clearly indicates the plan of the administration was to basically ignore deficit spending. It's even more laughable in light of the fact that the Bush administration had two wars and tax cuts, and had deficits 1/3 to 1/4th of present deficits. When handed jobs AND a reduction in oil imports from the Middle East AND a package even his labor supporters wanted, the Obama administration pissed away the Keystone XL pipeline project. The Obama administration to date has failed to act on a pipeline from the Bakken area of North Dakota to add even more jobs and reduce imports from the Middle East. They then failed to land a key contract in Brazil for refining oil from their massive offshore oil fields. The 5 million green energy jobs promised by the Obama administration are an illusion. No coherent plan is being implemented to reduce non-North American oil imports, unless one counts three years of economic malaise as a good and coherent plan.

The Obama administration, assuming you consider donations as "bought and paid for", is even more owned by the financial giants than the Bush administration was. Banking institutions still aren't lending.

The Justice department is an absolute disgrace. Two major, utter failures in gun tracing schemes - one of which has placed untold numbers of automatic and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of Mexican drug cartels. I don't hold to the theory being bantered about that it was intentional, but beyond a shadow of a doubt, this was a complete failure in planning and law enforcement.

The only department being competently run under this administration is State.

[bryanbutler]

The Obama administration didn't even get Congressional approval for actions in Libya or Yemen.

you're going to compare libya and yemen (neither of which had ground troops) to iraq and afghanistan? or what? especially considering that the congress (and public) were essentially lied to regarding WMD in iraq? i find that laughable. as an aside, the public (and congress) were also lied to regarding the gulf war (the famous "nurse" story). is it better to lie to the public and congress and get approval? maybe.

how much did we spend, either monetarily, politically, or morally, in libya or yemen, compared to iraq or afghanistan?

it's debatable whether libya or yemen were really "wars" anyway by the judicial standard, so congressional approval is in a very grey area.

[bryanbutler]

Far be it from me to make it sound like this is some sort of Obama love-fest, so here's something I'll bitch about: warantless GPS tracking devices placed on cars. The Supreme Court ruled 9-0 today that using and monitoring GPS devices placed on suspects' cars constitutes a violation of the 4th Amendment which protects citizens from unreasonable searches.

OK, i'll bitch about failure to repeal the patriot act, which is such an unprecedented intrusion on personal freedom that others pale in comparison. of course we can point to the administration that put it in place as well (response, J?), but obama failed when he extended it, even with the modifications.

there are others. i think most of us obama supporters (of whatever level) will point them out readily.

[onejayhawk]

Since when does adding national debt outweigh the moral cost of wars of aggression, complete with the loss of well over 100,000 civilian lives?

F*ck the stupid debt. Get people back to work and stop killing everyone all over the world. Passing the debt off on Obama as if he was anything other than in a totally untenable situation when he took office is shortsighted and shallow.

Posted in another thread but relevant here as well: “This country does in fact have a serious deficit problem. But the reality is that the deficit was caused by two wars - unpaid for. It was caused by huge tax breaks for the wealthiest people in the country. It was caused by a recession as a result of the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior on Wall Street. And if those are the causes of the deficit, I will be damned if we’re going to balance the budget on the backs of the elderly, the sick, the children, and the poor. That’s wrong.” - Bernie Sanders

When did it become a war of aggression? Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan vaguely resembles that. Otherwise we would control Iraqi oil at the source, and we are not even present. F*** the debt is up not up there with F*** the casualties, but it only one rung down. Get off your horse. Ten years ago it was all you were interested in, because there was GW Bush in the White House.

J

[dslaw]

When did it become a war of aggression?

The debt piled up in 2009 and 2010 outweighs all the negatives you cite and 2-3 other administrations as well
J

Maybe when we attacked them because they had WMD's. I mean they were involved in the 9/11 attack. I mean...um...well...um...Saddam is just a bad guy. Tell the thousands of mothers that no longer have sons, wives with no husbands, kids with one less parent that the deficit is worse than the war. And after saying the debt outweighs everything you reverse course and say it is one rung below casualties. Maybe you are the one that needs get off your horse. 10 years ago I did worry about the deficit because there wasn't a war. I said at the 2000 election that a $500 tax cut was a terrible idea that Bush floated simply to get elected. All the Republicans bought it without worrying about the deficit and now want to blame the current administration for this deficit.

[Wonderboy]

The one that bugs me is calling Obama the food stamp President. Three years before Obama was sworn in, the unemployment rate was 4.7 percent. The two quarters before Obama was sworn in, the GDP fell at annualized rates of -3.7 percent and -8.9 percent. So imo, the GOP follows economic policies for 8 years that put us close to a depression, thus putting a record number of people out of work and -- you guessed it -- on food stamps. And Obama is the food stamp President?

That's like killing your parents and then blaming people for treating you like an orphan.

[nots]

The one that bugs me is calling Obama the food stamp President. Three years before Obama was sworn in, the unemployment rate was 4.7 percent. The two quarters before Obama was sworn in, the GDP fell at annualized rates of -3.7 percent and -8.9 percent. So imo, the GOP follows economic policies for 8 years that put us close to a depression, thus putting a record number of people out of work and -- you guessed it -- on food stamps. And Obama is the food stamp President?

That's like killing your parents and then blaming people for treating you like an orphan.

With all due respect--it should be noted that the Dems controlled both the House and Senate in 2006-2007. The food stamp President line is nonsense--but the Dems do have some measure of blame regarding the economy ( see Barney Frank, Chris Dodd etc). Nothing that was passed, enacted or legislated from Jan 2007 on didn't have their seal of approval.

[Don Quixote]

With all due respect--it should be noted that the Dems controlled both the House and Senate in 2006-2007. The food stamp President line is nonsense--but the Dems do have some measure of blame regarding the economy ( see Barney Frank, Chris Dodd etc). Nothing that was passed, enacted or legislated from Jan 2007 on didn't have their seal of approval.

No, no, you don't understand. This is how it works in Democratic fantasyland (to visit Republican fantasyland, reverse everything)--

If you have a Republican President and a Republican Congress, it's the Republicans' fault because they control the entire process and have proposed and/or passed and signed lousy legislation.

If you have a Republican President and a Democratic Congress, it's the Republicans' fault because they have the power of the pen and proposed legislation so bad that the noble Congress couldn't undo it and was forced to pass.

If you have a Democratic President and a Republican Congress, it's the Republicans' fault because they control the legislative process and passed laws so bad that the noble President couldn't undo it and was forced to sign.

If you have a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress, it's the Republicans' fault because. Just because.

[onejayhawk]

Maybe when we attacked them because they had WMD's. I mean they were involved in the 9/11 attack. I mean...um...well...um...Saddam is just a bad guy. Tell the thousands of mothers that no longer have sons, wives with no husbands, kids with one less parent that the deficit is worse than the war. And after saying the debt outweighs everything you reverse course and say it is one rung below casualties. Maybe you are the one that needs get off your horse. 10 years ago I did worry about the deficit because there wasn't a war. I said at the 2000 election that a $500 tax cut was a terrible idea that Bush floated simply to get elected. All the Republicans bought it without worrying about the deficit and now want to blame the current administration for this deficit.

When one year is bigger than all eight under Bush, yes I do.

Obama has managed two years, both of which are bigger than all eight under Bush, and a third that is bigger than all eight under Reagan. In three years he managed to pile up more debt that the 28 years back to Carter. At the rate he was going in 2011, he will pile up more debt, in level dollars, than all prior history. It is the difference between a flesh wound and a severed vein.

J

[Hornsby]

When one year is bigger than all eight under Bush, yes I do.

Obama has managed two years, both of which are bigger than all eight under Bush, and a third that is bigger than all eight under Reagan. In three years he managed to pile up more debt that the 28 years back to Carter. At the rate he was going in 2011, he will pile up more debt, in level dollars, than all prior history. It is the difference between a flesh wound and a severed vein.

J

How about some of the blame going to the Republican controlled congress? As Chance pointed out the other day, it's been over 800 days since a budget was passed. Certainly they share the blame for the deficit equally...if not tipping in the favor of Congress. After all the President proposes, and the Congress disposes.

[nots]

I assign about 95% of the blame of the Great Recession to the Republicans. Is that because I am a blind partisan? Pray tell, who repealed Glass-Steagall? I do assign a modicum of blame to the Republican centrist, Bill Clinton.

As a quick aside, there was one extremely astute politician who noted that the repeal would inevitably result in banks becoming "too big to fail" (his words) and would eventually require a bailout from the Feds. Kudos to you, John Dingell (D-Michigan).

Last week Obama was a Republican--now Clinton is too.
Which one is closer to being an actual Democrat?

[dslaw]

No, no, you don't understand. This is how it works in Democratic fantasyland (to visit Republican fantasyland, reverse everything)--

+1. My brother-in-law is a die hard (R). Everything good that happened between 1980-1988 is all because of Reagan. Everything good that happened between 1994-2000 is because of the (R) Congress. I tell him you are arguing both sides of the coin. Typical response is "you just don't understand". What I do understand is that we need Congress to work with the President to solve problems, not fight each other. I was happy when Obama got an (R) Congress because I had visions of the late '90s when policies got talked about and the budget balanced even with the personal partisan snipings. This edition has turned to total crap and finger pointing.

[Wonderboy]

With all due respect--it should be noted that the Dems controlled both the House and Senate in 2006-2007. The food stamp President line is nonsense--but the Dems do have some measure of blame regarding the economy ( see Barney Frank, Chris Dodd etc). Nothing that was passed, enacted or legislated from Jan 2007 on didn't have their seal of approval.

I am completely comfortable with calling them the food stamp Congress, with all the shared responsibility that entails. But as you note, calling Obama the food stamp President is nonsense.

[Don Quixote]

+1. My brother-in-law is a die hard (R). Everything good that happened between 1980-1988 is all because of Reagan. Everything good that happened between 1994-2000 is because of the (R) Congress. I tell him you are arguing both sides of the coin. Typical response is "you just don't understand". What I do understand is that we need Congress to work with the President to solve problems, not fight each other. I was happy when Obama got an (R) Congress because I had visions of the late '90s when policies got talked about and the budget balanced even with the personal partisan snipings. This edition has turned to total crap and finger pointing.

Heh. I had an uncle-by-marriage who was exactly the same way in reverse. No Republican was ever anything but evil personified, and no Democrat had ever done anything wrong in his/her/its life.

As for the current Congress, I expected just what we got. Say what you want about Newt (and he is a sanctimonious slimeball), but he's a man of intelligence who found ways to work with Clinton's people, just like Tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan could be opponents and yet work together. Newt and Bubba were smart enough for it, Tip and Ronnie congenial enough. John Boehner possesses none of Newt's intellect and none of Tip's political astuteness; heck, he makes the last Repub Speaker, Dennis Hastert, look like a giant among legislators. President Obama deserves some of the blame, too; IMO he talks a bipartisan game but doesn't play it. Like Clinton in his first years, he relies on polls and pols to make his decisions. And Harry Reid, who should be trying to bridge the gap between the President and Speaker? Mr. Irrelevant.