The GOPs Best Hope in 2012

[onejayhawk]

it does help provide a higher grade of cardboard for their shantys to be sure.

You say that like it was a bad thing.

It is a ladder rung, and a foot in a door. Access matters.

J

[GwynnInTheHall]

You say that like it was a bad thing.

It is a ladder rung, and a foot in a door. Access matters.

J

As you say this with absolute seriousness then wonder what the hell we're talking about when we use words like 'disconnect' and Out of touch'

[Wonderboy]

Ah, he was clearly joking. With some exceptions, we're a pretty tough crowd here that can take it jokes like this.

[onejayhawk]

As you say this with absolute seriousness then wonder what the hell we're talking about when we use words like 'disconnect' and Out of touch'

You are disconnected, I'll give you that much. What is your point?

There are people that consider a minimum wage job a step up. It is not hard to understand. Especially when, 20 miles away, there are people working for 1/10th that amount.

J

[Mithrandir]

Ah, he was clearly joking. With some exceptions, we're a pretty tough crowd here that can take it jokes like this.

was he?

[Wonderboy]

was he?

Look, it was tough enough for me to make one post defending him. My stomach won't take two!

[GwynnInTheHall]

You are disconnected, I'll give you that much. What is your point?

There are people that consider a minimum wage job a step up. It is not hard to understand. Especially when, 20 miles away, there are people working for 1/10th that amount.

J

Really? Applauding a person working a full time job that doesn't pay a living wage is one thing, but to expect them to also do without any social programs making up for the gap between wages and the cost of living is where the disconnect occurs--on your part.

Or are you fine with expecting some folks to work twice as much as others just to put food on the table and keep their kids healthy? Or are you OK with asking someone working a full time job to live in their car or on the street?

Having a full time job paying minimum wage without assistance from Govt. programs, is definatley a step up-- from homelessness.

If you were joking than please forgive my assumption that you were not--If you weren't then I sincerely hope that you or none you care for find yourselves at the mercy of people with your mindset.

[onejayhawk]

Really? Applauding a person working a full time job that doesn't pay a living wage is one thing, but to expect them to also do without any social programs making up for the gap between wages and the cost of living is where the disconnect occurs--on your part.

Or are you fine with expecting some folks to work twice as much as others just to put food on the table and keep their kids healthy? Or are you OK with asking someone working a full time job to live in their car or on the street?

Having a full time job paying minimum wage without assistance from Govt. programs, is definatley a step up-- from homelessness.

If you were joking than please forgive my assumption that you were not--If you weren't then I sincerely hope that you or none you care for find yourselves at the mercy of people with your mindset.

I was not joking, and you are persistently missing the point.

To use your words, "Having a full time job paying minimum wage without assistance from Govt. programs, is definatley a step up--from homelessness." What exactly do you think I have been talking about? Homeless, or next to it, is exactly where an immigrant or migratiory worker is starting.

What has any of this conversation to do with "expecting some folks to work twice as much as others just to put food on the table and keep their kids healthy? Or are you OK with asking someone working a full time job to live in their car or on the street?" They are already living in their car, if they have one. Where did oposition to social programs enter into it? You, just now, were the first to raise them.

A minimum wage job is a step up from having no job. It is also an entry in the resume for the next application. Minimum wage is where you get experience for a better paid job. To judge from this rant, you would outlaw them entirely. Get off your horse, and get down here where people are living.

J

[DMT]

J and I don't see eye to eye on much but he is right, a minimum-wage job is, sadly, a step up for some people and that is the point he was making. I'm not sure why he's being attacked for stating that obvious point. That being said, minimum wage job creation is not going make up for all the much higher paying jobs that have vanished over the last decade from people who don't live near the border and aren't homeless...yet.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I was not joking, and you are persistently missing the point.

To use your words, "Having a full time job paying minimum wage without assistance from Govt. programs, is definatley a step up--from homelessness." What exactly do you think I have been talking about? Homeless, or next to it, is exactly where an immigrant or migratiory worker is starting.

What has any of this conversation to do with "expecting some folks to work twice as much as others just to put food on the table and keep their kids healthy? Or are you OK with asking someone working a full time job to live in their car or on the street?" They are already living in their car, if they have one. Where did oposition to social programs enter into it? You, just now, were the first to raise them.

A minimum wage job is a step up from having no job. It is also an entry in the resume for the next application. Minimum wage is where you get experience for a better paid job. To judge from this rant, you would outlaw them entirely. Get off your horse, and get down here where people are living.

J

Maybe the disconnect is in my understanding of your mindset or yours of mine.

Is having a job better than being homeless? Well sure it is, but I find it hypocritical for someone who supports severe cuts in the social services to talk like they champion aid for the poor.

I guess I need to know where you stand on things a bit better since I'm clearly not getting it.

Do you think a person should make a living wage (they can support themselves without assistance from any agency or any other person) if they work a full time job?

Do you believe we have an obligation to help those who cannot (I didn't say, will not or choose not to) help themselves in that regard (supporting themselves)?

As for my high horse, you gotta be ****ting me right?-Get down where people are living? are you serious? I guarantee that in my 50 years, half of which has been spent working, no one in here (or very few) has a lower avg annual income for those 25 years--and that's with a BA and Grad School. So I live what I speak, but I can't let you drag me into some personal conflict, so back to topic.

You say the Min Wagers are people off the street or migrant workers--do you have any documentation that can show us the demographics of those making Min Wage in Texas? How many were actually people making more who've had to settle for Min Wage or go without? It sure will be interesting to find out.

[GwynnInTheHall]

J and I don't see eye to eye on much but he is right, a minimum-wage job is, sadly, a step up for some people and that is the point he was making. I'm not sure why he's being attacked for stating that obvious point. That being said, minimum wage job creation is not going make up for all the much higher paying jobs that have vanished over the last decade from people who don't live near the border and aren't homeless...yet.

I get that, I find it distasteful for a person to use the same mouth which advocates cutting social programs applauding something which is almost (to me at least) three steps below what I feel people are entitled to in this country.

I take this away from him when I read his post (and after having his body of posts to consider)--At least the lazy bastards are working and that's one less thing I'll have to pay for' or maybe I'm reading too much into it?

[onejayhawk]

I get that, I find it distasteful for a person to use the same mouth which advocates cutting social programs applauding something which is almost (to me at least) three steps below what I feel people are entitled to in this country.

I take this away from him when I read his post (and after having his body of posts to consider)--At least the lazy bastards are working and that's one less thing I'll have to pay for' or maybe I'm reading too much into it?

Yes, you are reading in too much.

For starters, when you say things like "three steps below what I feel people are entitled", I have to ask "by whom"? By that standard, I am entitled to more. It is not "one less thing I have to pay for", it is "You should be paying me."

I advocate cutting spending on social programs, not because they are no good, but because we cannot afford to borrow money to pay for them. I also believe that earned is better than entitled.

More than that, I am irritated that you take a glance at a social program that works well, and want to discard it.

J

[TranaGreg]

I advocate cutting spending on all expenses, from social programs to defense & everything in between, not because they are no good, but because we cannot afford to borrow money to pay for them.

I'm curious if you'd support the above amendment?

[onejayhawk]

I'm curious if you'd support the above amendment?

With the proviso that vested obligations are both vested and obligations.

J

[Mithrandir]

Maybe the disconnect is in my understanding of your mindset or yours of mine.

Is having a job better than being homeless? Well sure it is, but I find it hypocritical for someone who supports severe cuts in the social services to talk like they champion aid for the poor.

I guess I need to know where you stand on things a bit better since I'm clearly not getting it.

Do you think a person should make a living wage (they can support themselves without assistance from any agency or any other person) if they work a full time job?

Do you believe we have an obligation to help those who cannot (I didn't say, will not or choose not to) help themselves in that regard (supporting themselves)?

As for my high horse, you gotta be ****ting me right?-Get down where people are living? are you serious? I guarantee that in my 50 years, half of which has been spent working, no one in here (or very few) has a lower avg annual income for those 25 years--and that's with a BA and Grad School. So I live what I speak, but I can't let you drag me into some personal conflict, so back to topic.

You say the Min Wagers are people off the street or migrant workers--do you have any documentation that can show us the demographics of those making Min Wage in Texas? How many were actually people making more who've had to settle for Min Wage or go without? It sure will be interesting to find out.

i'll take that wager