Will Smith vs Chris Rock

[Gregg]

Imagine how much more powerful Will Smith's rebuttal would have been if he used words rather than violence. If he avoided the slap and instead started his speech with "if you think insulting a woman's physical appearance is okay..." and going on to trash Chris Rock for the off color joke.

Good post

[The Feral Slasher]

Yeah, he could have used it as an opportunity to elevate his wife rather than degrade himself and the evening, which will be a career highlight for most of the people involved. No one is talking about those accomplishments now. They are only talking about his assault.

A really good point. Smith wants to pretend he was protecting someone, but all he did was draw attention to himself and away from others who deserved it. Did slapping Chris Rock really help his wife somehow ?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Gregg, I am surprised you are defending assault and a room full of people condoning that assault by allowing the perp to stay and then accept an award. Chris Rock is a comedian. The formula for the Oscars is that it is a very long circle jerk of people with large egos and an overblown sense of their work, and the Oscars purposefully enlists a comedian to poke enough fun at said actors to take them down a peg, which generally helps how they are perceived by the audience. I would never have told a joke like that, and I do think many jokes go too far, and just because someone is famous does not mean they should be treated poorly or have to put up with insults, but there have certainly been worse jokes at the Oscars.

Her condition is not life threatening or even serious beyond the aesthetic challenges (and, while that is hard, especially for a women, of course, it helps that she is a beautiful women with and without hair--a fact I think she knows). All he said was she should play a role, because of her condition. Again, in poor taste, but it was not that bad. I'd argue it is no worse than making a joke about Danny Devito playing the title role of Stuart Little, because they wouldn't have to CGI him down to size. Devito's life is harder because of his condition than Smith's is because of hers, but he would have just laughed it off, and he would have laughed it off if the joke was about his equally short wife, I think. She would have laughed too, because she would understand the context.

Even if I concede that it is subjective and I don't really know her struggle with it, or how sensitive she is to it, it was just words. Will Smith had no right to assault Rock, and I doubt he would have if it was Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson. The idea that it is okay for someone to assault someone else over a joke, even one in poor taste, is not one I think we should accept. Instead of smiling and pretending it was okay so he could get close enough to slap the man as hard as he could, he could have just said what he said and the same message would have come across. I'd fight for my family for sure, but using hands over a joke from a comedian whose job is to make jokes about the actors there is just not defensible to me. Especially when it was a sucker slap and he knew damn well Rock could not and would not retaliate. And it was even worse that he was allowed to stay there and accept his award after doing that. Rock handled it like a pro after the assault. And it is clear which of them was a pro and which was unbalanced by who was crying afterward--it was the man who made the sneak attack, not the man who got slapped really hard. There was obviously more behind his actions than that one joke, but he needed to be able to control that.

Many things here--

First as I've been reading, most women of color have image issues regarding their hair--Jada has specifically mentioned her struggle with this--Rock knows better as he recently produces a documentary on the subject. Good Hair--It won some awards. That it's not a life threatening issue is irrelevant so is that possibility that others might handle things better than others (Devito) BTW I don't ever recall anyone making a joke about his fairbanks condition--I might have missed that one though.

Second, there's a history between Rock and Jada going back to 2016 when he made another joke diminishing her choice to boycott the event due to the lack of diverse nominees.

Rock should have known better--period. I know I can make a joke about Chancellor, You, Feral, DMT and most others--but I know I shouldn't when it comes to some of the guys in here who might not be fond of me or my style. Read the room--Rock didn't do that. He certainly handled the moment better than Smith and Kudos to him for that, but he should have been more thoughtful--he had an entire room of people to take a shot at. FWIW I don;t believe it matters if you or I think something is just a joke, it all about what Jada felt in that moment and how Will responded. Will absolutely could have handled it better though I tend to believe he'd still be getting ripped if all he did was yell at Chris like he did after the slap.

Smith also mentioned how people expect actor/celebrities to take abuse, be disrespected, forced to endure crazy shit all while smiling and pretending it doesn't hurt. Is it better to vent your frustration or keep it inside? How many people do just that and end up committing suicide? How about we hold others to a high standard or behavior (even comics)? That might make moments like this fewer and far between (cuz it's never going to stop completely).

Again, I know I might be alone in my thinking, but i'll say it again--put me in that situation and there's a decent chance I'd do the same--If that makes me a bad person--so be it. Because in the end--My wife's reaction/opinion on the subject is the only one that matters.

[Gregg]

I do think I'd have a breaking point where I responded to words with hands, even though in theory, I do not agree with responding to words with violence, especially in that context. But it would have taken a much worse joke and a belief that the intent was malicious. She is not dying. She is a grown woman who knows her worth and beauty, not his daughter who may still not have that sense of self-worth. Her condition is about as mild as they come and the joke was not even suggesting she was not beautiful.

Wait you have a breaking point. So you understand his. And his is not the same as yours or mine. Even though we do not agree with responding to words with violence. You and I and the rest who have commented get the advantage of thinking about it. Hindsight is powerful. We did not have to deal with it in the heat of the moment.

I don't think we are very far apart on this one.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Imagine how much more powerful Will Smith's rebuttal would have been if he used words rather than violence. If he avoided the slap and instead started his speech with "if you think insulting a woman's physical appearance is okay..." and going on to trash Chris Rock for the off color joke.

I disag.....No wait--I completely agree. Shit.

[Bene Futuis]

Then I'd be a liar.

Though I believe in diplomacy first, I advocate violence if I believe it's necessary.

Where's your line? Does it take a physical attack on you to respond in a like manner? On someone you love? a stranger?

We all have the line, when crossed, we respond. If you can go through life never having to be physically violent then you're lucky--I wish that was always the case.

I've only been in a couple of physical altercations, neither precipitated by me--I responded. I make those same choices again.

If we were out in public and someone insulted/hurt my wife--I'd ask for an apology, if that didn't work I'd respond in a more vitriolic manner, possibly with violence--Sure I might get my ass kicked and/or go to jail--but it's who I am and I'm comfortable with that.

If this were a perfect world or even a world where people were held accountable equally, then I might react different or have a perspective similar to yours, but this world, we as a species and in society today--there is little equity or justice--so I choose to mete out my own if I feel it necessary. Again, not a popular attitude, but I can live with that.

Sorry to disappoint.

Who cares about what you would do? This isn't about you. This stuff feels unbelievably narcissistic to me.

[GwynnInTheHall]

A really good point. Smith wants to pretend he was protecting someone, but all he did was draw attention to himself and away from others who deserved it. Did slapping Chris Rock really help his wife somehow ?

If it assuaged her feeling--then yes--That's a question only she can answer and their family response seemed to be pretty supportive of what happened.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Who cares about what you would do? This isn't about you. This stuff feels unbelievably narcissistic to me.

Yup you got me, it's all about ol narcissistic me.

[Sour Masher]

Are you familiar with verbal bullying? Many who are bullied "take it in stride." I would not make fun of Danny or Rhea in that way. Now if they wanted to tease themselves or each other that would be ok.

Again I am not saying these the things I have been saying to justify Smith's behavior. I am saying I understand it in the heat of the moment. He will have to suffer whatever consequences are deemed appropriate.

I would hope that Smith would learn from this and not do it again. I would hope that Chris Rock would also be a little more thoughtful using that kind of humor.

I am familiar with the concept that words can be hurtful, yes. I am also not suggesting that you would make a short joke. I am suggesting that if you did make a joke about someone's appearance, especially someone with a very high sense of self-worth, power, and wealth, while none of those things should excuse you being mean to that person, that person would have no right to pretend they found your joke funny, sneak up to you and slap you as hard as he could, sit back down as if he knew there would be no consequences for his assault and then just a little while later be given an award on the very same stage he committed assault. Given the specific circumstances in this case, I just see no defense for Smith or the academy for not requiring he leave once he committed assault. He was and is totally in the wrong and he and many defending him do not recognize that fact.

But this is not the first time the academy has ignored assault on stage. They let Adrien Brody force a kiss on Halle Berry during his acceptance speech back in 2003 and everyone clapped about that, even while Berry tried to avoid it and was visibly upset about it (and still is). I doubt that would fly today, but then again, I am surprised Smith was allowed to stay and accept his award after his assault. FWIW, I was even more appalled by Brody's actions back in 2003.

[Sour Masher]

Wait you have a breaking point. So you understand his. And his is not the same as yours or mine. Even though we do not agree with responding to words with violence. You and I and the rest who have commented get the advantage of thinking about it. Hindsight is powerful. We did not have to deal with it in the heat of the moment.

I don't think we are very far apart on this one.

I have never been put in a spot where my wife was insulted on national tv, but I do know in my adult life, I have never responded to words with hands, so I feel safe in saying I would not have done so in this case either. I have responded with fighting words that could have escalated to violence, but Smith's sneak attack was a bitch ass move to me, so I lack any empathy for him at all in this case. I do not know you very well, but despite your claims in this thread, I do not think you would have smiled and nodded at the joke, approached Rock in a friendly way and slapped him as hard as you could, then gone and sat down like you get to do that without any consequences at all. I think at the very least, you'd have expressed your disapproval verbally first. I do understand what triggered Smith to slap Rock, I just do not find it an acceptable response in this case, at all.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I have never been put in a spot where my wife was insulted on national tv, but I do know in my adult life, I have never responded to words with hands, so I feel safe in saying I would not have done so in this case either. I have responded with fighting words that could have escalated to violence, but Smith's sneak attack was a bitch ass move to me, so I lack any empathy for him at all in this case. I do not know you very well, but despite your claims in this thread, I do not think you would have smiled and nodded at the joke, approached Rock in a friendly way and slapped him as hard as you could, then gone and sat down like you get to do that without any consequences at all. I think at the very least, you'd have expressed your disapproval verbally first. But I don't know. I do understand what triggered Smith to slap Rock, I just do not find it an acceptable response in this case, at all.

In any case, Rock and Smith have apparently spoken and all is forgiven.

I forgave someone once, in secret, but enough about me....

[Sour Masher]

In any case, Rock and Smith have apparently spoken and all is forgiven.

I forgave someone once, in secret, but enough about me....

I am glad for them, but Rock's poor taste joke and Smith's way over-the-top response stole the night from everyone else, which is a shame. But they will all survive, so not the end of the world. I still lost respect for both of them (a little for Rock, more for Smith), and I hope Smith gets some help to sort out what ever the underlying issues are.

[Bene Futuis]

I have never been put in a spot where my wife was insulted on national tv, but I do know in my adult life, I have never responded to words with hands, so I feel safe in saying I would not have done so in this case either. I have responded with fighting words that could have escalated to violence, but Smith's sneak attack was a bitch ass move to me, so I lack any empathy for him at all in this case. I do not know you very well, but despite your claims in this thread, I do not think you would have smiled and nodded at the joke, approached Rock in a friendly way and slapped him as hard as you could, then gone and sat down like you get to do that without any consequences at all. I think at the very least, you'd have expressed your disapproval verbally first. But I don't know. I do understand what triggered Smith to slap Rock, I just do not find it an acceptable response in this case, at all.

I think what we really saw (engaging armchair psychologist mode) was an example of psychological displacement. Will Smith was publicly humiliated when his wife came out and said not only was she boning other dudes, but that one of the dudes was some sort of long term "entanglement" (her word) with one of their son's friends. Yeah, that's gotta be pretty emasculating. In response, Will Smith apologized to her (uh....what?) and then they all of a sudden had an open marriage. Now, Chris Rock comes rolling around and makes a pretty innocuous joke at Jada's expense. He is just directing his anger at Chris Rock instead of the source. Obviously this is a total guess.

And it probably bears repeating - movie stars being the butt of jokes at the Oscars is a tradition going back many, many years. Will Smith is a fucking clown and his reputation should be totally destroyed after this. This should have been career suicide but it won't be - plenty of folks, just like in here, are fine justifying violence based on their own warped versions of toxic love. Will Smith deserves absolutely no support from this at all.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I think what we really saw (engaging armchair psychologist mode) was an example of psychological displacement. Will Smith was publicly humiliated when his wife came out and said not only was she boning other dudes, but that one of the dudes was some sort of long term "entanglement" (her word) with one of their son's friends. Yeah, that's gotta be pretty emasculating. In response, Will Smith apologized to her (uh....what?) and then they all of a sudden had an open marriage. Now, Chris Rock comes rolling around and makes a pretty innocuous joke at Jada's expense. He is just directing his anger at Chris Rock instead of the source. Obviously this is a total guess.

Yeah I read those articles too.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I made a mistake and mixed up the Will Smiths.

Dodgers Will Smith is celebrating his 27th birthday today by being mistaken for that other Will Smith. Said he didn't see the "Slap Heard Round the World" live but started getting mentions on Twitter from people telling him how great it was that he stood up for Jada that way