Will Smith vs Chris Rock

[GwynnInTheHall]

It's okay, if he's anything like the Will Smith I know, he'll dodge it. If not, he's brave enough to carry on.

Mitch Haniger should have read this long ago...

[Ken]

Mitch Haniger should have read this long ago...

Mitch Haniger was at the Oscars?

[Sour Masher]

Gregg, I am surprised you are defending assault and a room full of people condoning that assault by allowing the perp to stay and then accept an award. Chris Rock is a comedian. The formula for the Oscars is that it is a very long circle jerk of people with large egos and an overblown sense of their work, and the Oscars purposefully enlists a comedian to poke enough fun at said actors to take them down a peg, which generally helps how they are perceived by the audience. I would never have told a joke like that, and I do think many jokes go too far, and just because someone is famous does not mean they should be treated poorly or have to put up with insults, but there have certainly been worse jokes at the Oscars.

Her condition is not life threatening or even serious beyond the aesthetic challenges (and, while that is hard, especially for a women, of course, it helps that she is a beautiful women with and without hair--a fact I think she knows). All he said was she should play a role, because of her condition. Again, in poor taste, but it was not that bad. I'd argue it is no worse than making a joke about Danny Devito playing the title role of Stuart Little, because they wouldn't have to CGI him down to size. Devito's life is harder because of his condition than Smith's is because of hers, but he would have just laughed it off, and he would have laughed it off if the joke was about his equally short wife, I think. She would have laughed too, because she would understand the context.

Even if I concede that it is subjective and I don't really know her struggle with it, or how sensitive she is to it, it was just words. Will Smith had no right to assault Rock, and I doubt he would have if it was Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson. The idea that it is okay for someone to assault someone else over a joke, even one in poor taste, is not one I think we should accept. Instead of smiling and pretending it was okay so he could get close enough to slap the man as hard as he could, he could have just said what he said and the same message would have come across. I'd fight for my family for sure, but using hands over a joke from a comedian whose job is to make jokes about the actors there is just not defensible to me. Especially when it was a sucker slap and he knew damn well Rock could not and would not retaliate. And it was even worse that he was allowed to stay there and accept his award after doing that. Rock handled it like a pro after the assault. And it is clear which of them was a pro and which was unbalanced by who was crying afterward--it was the man who made the sneak attack, not the man who got slapped really hard. There was obviously more behind his actions than that one joke, but he needed to be able to control that.

[The Feral Slasher]

I always try (mostly succeed) to react in a reasonable manner at first, but at times I've just reacted--emotionally and sometimes physically to what I perceive to be an unacceptable incident. So I cannot, without feeling like a hypocrite, condemn Smith's actions in totality.

.

Or you could acknowledge that you made a mistake and were wrong to make things physical, just like Will Smith was. Wouldn't make you a hypocrite, it would make you an imperfect human, like we all are.

[Ken]

Or you could acknowledge that you made a mistake

I made a mistake and mixed up the Will Smiths.

[The Feral Slasher]

I made a mistake and mixed up the Will Smiths.

I made a mistake and slashed tires and punched people....wait, I haven't done that yet, standby

[Gregg]

Gregg, I am surprised you are defending assault and a room full of people condoning that assault by allowing the perp to stay and then accept an award. Chris Rock is a comedian. The formula for the Oscars is that it is a very long circle jerk of people with large egos and an overblown sense of their work, and the Oscars purposefully enlists comedian to poke enough fun at said actors to take them down a peg, which generally helps how they are perceived by the audience. I would never have told a joke like that, and I do think many jokes go too far, but there have certainly been worse jokes at the Oscars. Her condition, while challenging, is not life threatening or even very serious beyond the aesthetic challenges *and of course, it helps that she is a beautiful women with and without hair). All he said was she should play a role, because of her condition. Again, in poor taste, but it was not that bad, and even if I concede that is subjective and I don't really know her struggle with it, it was just words. Will Smith had no right to assault Rock, and I doubt he would have if it was Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson. The idea that it is okay for someone to assault someone else over a joke, even one in poor taste, is not one I think we should accept. Instead of smiling and pretending it was okay so he could get close enough to slap the man as hard as he could, he could have just said what he said and the same message would have come across. I'd fight for my family for sure, but using hands over a joke from a comedian whose job is to make jokes about the actors there is just not defensible to me.

There is a difference between defending and understanding why he did it. I think I am on record as saying he could have handled that better.

I think if Rock took a shot at Will Smith he would have laughed it off. It is different when someone belittles a loved on in front of so many people.

I too am surprised. I am surprised that so many that have posted think it is ok for Chris Rock to make that statement. Should a comedian tease someone who lost their hair to chemo? GI Jane 4? I am pretty sure if you tried real hard you could see the difference between what comedians have done over the years and the very personal comment that was made to Jada. I am not saying that Will Smith should have done it. He should not have. I understand how it happened.

I give Chris Rock props for not pressing charges.

I did not see Will Smith's acceptance speech. Nor did I read anything today about what happened after the show.

[Gregg]

I made a mistake and mixed up the Will Smiths.

They asked me for your address...I did not give it.

[Sour Masher]

There is a difference between defending and understanding why he did it. I think I am on record as saying he could have handled that better.

I think if Rock took a shot at Will Smith he would have laughed it off. It is different when someone belittles a loved on in front of so many people.

I too am surprised. I am surprised that so many that have posted think it is ok for Chris Rock to make that statement. Should a comedian tease someone who lost their hair to chemo? GI Jane 4? I am pretty sure if you tried real hard you could see the difference between what comedians have done over the years and the very personal comment that was made to Jada. I am not saying that Will Smith should have done it. He should not have. I understand how it happened.

I give Chris Rock props for not pressing charges.

I did not see Will Smith's acceptance speech. Nor did I read anything today about what happened after the show.

I edited my post to give more context for my position. I do not think chemo is a fair equivalency, as Smith's condition is entirely aesthetic. I think my comparison to a short joke about Rhea Perlman is a fair one (in fact, height issues are far more challenging than hair issues, especially with how good wigs are), and I am confident Devito would have taken it in stride. Jada's hair loss is from a condition that causes hair loss, not a symptom of a worse disease. I am sure Rock did not think it would be so triggering for either Smith. Again, it was in poor taste, but he wasn't making a joke about their dead daughter or something. It was a 5 on the bad joke scale and Smith's response was totally disproportionate and should not have been condoned. He should have been escorted out of the building.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Or you could acknowledge that you made a mistake and were wrong to make things physical, just like Will Smith was. Wouldn't make you a hypocrite, it would make you an imperfect human, like we all are.

Then I'd be a liar.

Though I believe in diplomacy first, I advocate violence if I believe it's necessary.

Where's your line? Does it take a physical attack on you to respond in a like manner? On someone you love? a stranger?

We all have the line, when crossed, we respond. If you can go through life never having to be physically violent then you're lucky--I wish that was always the case.

I've only been in a couple of physical altercations, neither precipitated by me--I responded. I make those same choices again.

If we were out in public and someone insulted/hurt my wife--I'd ask for an apology, if that didn't work I'd respond in a more vitriolic manner, possibly with violence--Sure I might get my ass kicked and/or go to jail--but it's who I am and I'm comfortable with that.

If this were a perfect world or even a world where people were held accountable equally, then I might react different or have a perspective similar to yours, but this world, we as a species and in society today--there is little equity or justice--so I choose to mete out my own if I feel it necessary. Again, not a popular attitude, but I can live with that.

Sorry to disappoint.

[Sour Masher]

I do think I'd have a breaking point where I responded to words with hands, even though in theory, I do not agree with responding to words with violence, especially in that context. But it would have taken a much worse joke and a belief that the intent was malicious. She is not dying. She is a grown woman who knows her worth and beauty, not his daughter who may still not have that sense of self-worth. Her condition is about as mild as they come and the joke was not even suggesting she was not beautiful.

[The Feral Slasher]

Then I'd be a liar.

Though I believe in diplomacy first, I advocate violence if I believe it's necessary.

Where's your line? Does it take a physical attack on you to respond in a like manner? On someone you love? a stranger?

We all have the line, when crossed, we respond. If you can go through life never having to be physically violent then you're lucky--I wish that was always the case.

I've only been in a couple of physical altercations, neither precipitated by me--I responded. I make those same choices again.

If we were out in public and someone insulted/hurt my wife--I'd ask for an apology, if that didn't work I'd respond in a more vitriolic manner, possibly with violence--Sure I might get my ass kicked and/or go to jail--but it's who I am and I'm comfortable with that.

If this were a perfect world or even a world where people were held accountable equally, then I might react different or have a perspective similar to yours, but this world, we as a species and in society today--there is little equity or justice--so I choose to mete out my own if I feel it necessary. Again, not a popular attitude, but I can live with that.

Sorry to disappoint.

not disappointed, I was just stating the obvious. It's clear that you were not worried about being a hypocrite, you just are ok with what happened. Anyway we disagree, and probably enough said about that

[Ken]

Imagine how much more powerful Will Smith's rebuttal would have been if he used words rather than violence. If he avoided the slap and instead started his speech with "if you think insulting a woman's physical appearance is okay..." and going on to trash Chris Rock for the off color joke.

[Sour Masher]

Imagine how much more powerful Will Smith's rebuttal would have been if he used words rather than violence. If he avoided the slap and instead started his speech with "if you think insulting a woman's physical appearance is okay..." and going on to trash Chris Rock for the off color joke.

Yeah, he could have used it as an opportunity to elevate his wife rather than degrade himself and the evening, which will be a career highlight for most of the people involved. No one is talking about those accomplishments now. They are only talking about his assault.

[Gregg]

I edited my post to give more context for my position. I do not think chemo is a fair equivalency, as Smith's condition is entirely aesthetic. I think my comparison to a short joke about Rhea Perlman is a fair one (in fact, height issues are far more challenging than hair issues, especially with how good wigs are), and I am confident Devito would have taken it in stride. Jada's hair loss is from a condition that causes hair loss, not a symptom of a worse disease. I am sure Rock did not think it would be so triggering for either Smith. Again, it was in poor taste, but he wasn't making a joke about their dead daughter or something. It was a 5 on the bad joke scale and Smith's response was totally disproportionate and should not have been condoned. He should have been escorted out of the building.

Are you familiar with verbal bullying? Many who are bullied "take it in stride." I would not make fun of Danny or Rhea in that way. Now if they wanted to tease themselves or each other that would be ok.

Again I am not saying these the things I have been saying to justify Smith's behavior. I am saying I understand it in the heat of the moment. He will have to suffer whatever consequences are deemed appropriate.

I would hope that Smith would learn from this and not do it again. I would hope that Chris Rock would also be a little more thoughtful using that kind of humor.