2020 Election thread.

[senorsheep]

If you want an interesting read - and with the elections complete go back and read the thread about the Democratic Nomination. There are so many interesting statements in that thread that either were spot on - many of which got significant push back.

Some deleted posts, too, I see...

[onejayhawk]

Some deleted posts, too, I see...

Not just that thread.

J

[baldgriff]

Interesting to say the least.

[senorsheep]

To say misogyny was a decisive factor in the election is a pretty harsh condemnation of Democrat voters, isn't it?

The supposed misogyny of Republicans voters couldn't have been much of a factor. Based on political differences, they weren't voting for her anyway. Unless you want to argue that Republicans were so outraged by her gender that they turned out in huge numbers to protest her lady parts. Seems unlikely to me.

For misogyny to have negatively impacted her numbers in any meaningful way, wouldn't it mean that people who otherwise agreed with her politically withheld their votes because of her gender? I have a hard time believing that that level of misogyny is running wild in the Democratic party.

[Hodor]

Some deleted posts, too, I see...

I'd noticed he'd bailed, hadn't noticed that his posts were all gone.

[senorsheep]

I'd noticed he'd bailed, hadn't noticed that his posts were all gone.

Hopefully he's found himself a nice safe space.

[baldgriff]

To say misogyny was a decisive factor in the election is a pretty harsh condemnation of Democrat voters, isn't it?

The supposed misogyny of Republicans voters couldn't have been much of a factor. Based on political differences, they weren't voting for her anyway. Unless you want to argue that Republicans were so outraged by her gender that they turned out in huge numbers to protest her lady parts. Seems unlikely to me.

For misogyny to have negatively impacted her numbers in any meaningful way, wouldn't it mean that people who otherwise agreed with her politically withheld their votes because of her gender? I have a hard time believing that that level of misogyny is running wild in the Democratic party.

No - misogyny is the excuse that can be used. You are correct that a great number of people about 58million of them chose not to vote for her. So in the mind of the leftist - there are 58million misogynists or other "ists". Having a difference of opinion or ideals is not even possible, its all moral decisions. Either A) you dont agree with her and wont vote her because your a misogynist or B) because your a misogynist your views are tainted and you wont agree with her and wont vote for her.

I said it before and I will say it again - she by far was the worst candidate that the DNC could put up. The DFL used to be for the little guy - Joe farmer and Jack iron range worker..... you know the middle class where the hard working people are at. DFL used to stand for Democratic Farmer Labor Party - FARM and LABOR principles especially FARMING found in fly-over country - where the middle class hard working people are hurting and struggling with many policies implemented over the last administration. Now who knows what it means - buy its not labor and farming. Do they even refer to themselves as DFL anymore? They may want to rethink that

So what did the DFL/DNC do? Over the course of a 16 months - they destroyed their credibility with how HRC got the nomination due to political shikanery and shenanigans, called a great number of potential voters Deplorable and preached down to voters about the moral responsibility to finally get a woman president and get that racist, bigot, misogynistic, homophobic, islamophobic, and whatever other labels you can create to denigrate the "other side" with. Then - not realizing that in the course of trying to pander to millennials and special interest groups on the farther left side they likely disenfranchised a great number of more centrist people who have actual concerns with:

illegal immigration - and that doesnt make them racist
bathroom rights - and that doesnt make someone homophobic
the rise of Islamic violence - and that doesnt make them Islamaphobic
not voting with their vagina - and that doesnt make them misogynist
economic impact of trade agreements - and that doesnt make them whatever the label would be.

The DFL is not the party of the hard working middle class anymore - they have lost touch with who they either are or want to be.

[Hornsby]

To say misogyny was a decisive factor in the election is a pretty harsh condemnation of Democrat voters, isn't it?

The supposed misogyny of Republicans voters couldn't have been much of a factor. Based on political differences, they weren't voting for her anyway. Unless you want to argue that Republicans were so outraged by her gender that they turned out in huge numbers to protest her lady parts. Seems unlikely to me.

For misogyny to have negatively impacted her numbers in any meaningful way, wouldn't it mean that people who otherwise agreed with her politically withheld their votes because of her gender? I have a hard time believing that that level of misogyny is running wild in the Democratic party.

Again, it WAS a factor, to not believe it was so is folly. Were there people who are Democrats that didn't vote for her because she was a woman? Undoubtedly.

Don't underestimate those who turned out against her in the GOP because she had "lady parts". Why do you think Trump called her a "Nasty Woman", rather than a nasty person? Little things, but seeds are planted.

And lets not lose track of the fact that she still is going to win the (totally irrelevant) popular vote with roughly 65 million votes...she and her people screwed the pooch in the last week or so by believing their own polls, and not what Trump was seeing. If she'd have put the energy into the states that Trump targeted, I have little doubt that she would have won the electoral vote as well.

[baldgriff]

Originally Posted by eldiablo505
You guys are really going to freak out when you learn about this electoral college thing.

Irony is such an amazing thing.

[senorsheep]

Don't underestimate those who turned out against her in the GOP because she had "lady parts". Why do you think Trump called her a "Nasty Woman", rather than a nasty person? Little things, but seeds are planted.

I'm sure I estimate the misogyny factor to be much lower than you do. I saw a lot of evidence of Republicans not liking her politics, her party, her supporters, and her personally. I think her gender was pretty low on the list of why they turned out to stop her. The same people were perfectly willing to support a ticket with Sarah Palin on it not too long ago. I'm not saying it wasn't out there, I just don't see any evidence that it was a significant factor.

[senorsheep]

Originally Posted by eldiablo505
You guys are really going to freak out when you learn about this electoral college thing.

Irony is such an amazing thing.

The irony is that Trump declared in 2012: "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."

[gcstomp]

Prior posting, I detailed a 7 point list of why HRC lost. Each item accounts for a percent or two, maybe, but collectively resulted in this embarrassing result. The reason we have these mass demonstrations is because few people other than uneducated, or various deplorables, actually wanted him to win, but rather just wanted HRC to lose.

Sure, people dont like to be called racist, or a bigot. Sure, that wont forward conversation, and its not helpful in uniting country. But we have ample evidence of who Trump is. To opine that we ought not say these naughty words, racist, sexist, bigot, worst of all zero moral compass so he can at any moment flip positions, is to simply wish Trump platform was not entirely constructed on a bedrock of hate. He may do a great job, and be inclusive, and have great understanding of issues both foreign and domestic, but that would mean he deliberately posed as a fascist to get elected, but now will revert to his true self of Captain America.

People did not turn out to vote, some 42% simply did not bother to cast vote.... Millions fewer voted this cycle, not just D, but also R. If those who were eligible but did not vote all voted for write in of Chef Boyardee, or Kardashian, or whatever pop celebrity is big that candidate would have won by unprecedented landslide over R or D. Responding is a silly exercise in these threads for me, so I will try to bail on this party.

My prior list:
Forces involved:
1- FBI director Commey statement release a few days prior to election had some small impact, even though he did his little take backsie comment a couple days later, damage was done.
2- Russian government back hacking releasing steady stream of D only emails to influence our election had some small influence. Putin has his stooge.
3- Sexism, thats a positive to bible belt. Traditional family means to many man leads family period.
4- Racism, bigotry. Build the wall gets cheers. Keep muslims out gets cheers. Trump endorsed by all the white power alt right groups.
5- Trump was a habitual liar, to such velocity no single lie he uttered had impact as by time fact checkers point out 1 item, T had already spouted 10 more, 1/2 of statements conflicting with his own that he said earlier. This again was a positive in net voting. Nothing could be disqualifying as there did not exist the 1 line item to focus on. We had HRC emails, which Sanders said we were tired of talking about some 15 months ago, but since it is the 1 simple item, we can paint in neon and focus on.
6- Air time, Trump was on air all the time, he spent budget on hats, he has decades as reality tv star, no need to spend, while others spent on commercials and polls. The value of the Trump air time estimated at 2 bil+.
7- Most important to Trump election win, mass hyper speed misinformation. Fox has the steady drumbeat of nonsense, Alex Jones, Breitbart, most venomous was Facebook, where any info released was created into something else, weaponized through the alt right filter, and this new product was misinformation spread as memes, or short quipy posts prepped by millions to more millions, with virtually no facts attached. Perception trumps reality.

[baldgriff]

Perception trumps reality.

I see what you did here.....

[nots]

I'd noticed he'd bailed, hadn't noticed that his posts were all gone.

Who bailed?

[Moonlight J]

El D bailed at his request since he is now making a name for himself in another field. He wanted to start a new so he's lurking and may post from time to time under a nom de plume with less personal details