Over/Under

[baldgriff]

The idea that there were more "deports" under Obama is a fallacy. The definition of deport was changed under his administration to include those illegals that were actually turned away at the border.

[nots]

Illegal immigration plummeted under Obama.

I'm not sure what you are saying.....can you flesh that out a bit more. Thanks

[swampdragon]

I believe that ILLEGAL Immigration is one of the primary planks that got him elected.

I dont believe that Americans really have much concern with LEGAL Immigration. There is a large segment of the country that sees ILLEGAL immigration as a large drain on social services - services that many would prefer to spend on people who are here legally and are citizens. That is not racist - that is looking of our country to enforce the immigration laws.

But how much of the economy is based on illegal immigrants? Just go through your day and see where it might impact you
lunch out - everyone legal in the deli
housecleaning - you pay a legal person and declare taxes and paperwork on that person?
that painter you hired?
the factory worker? or do we just use products made in china with non existent safety policies?


not singling you out - just asking how much do we rely on illegal immigrants

[baldgriff]

Do I understand that illegal immigration changes the landscape of our economy?

Sure I get that some guy named Juan, Pedro, Jorge or other is working for less than the minimum wage or reduced hourly wage. I get that by doing that the employer is "saving expenses". Is that fair to the immigrant who gets no SSN paid in, employer contribution to healthcare, 401k or other benefits? Its a crime for the employer to do that the illegal. It also put the illegal immigrant to some degree at a competitive advantage because they are willing to take less money to work at the deli or putting on a roof or whatever job they land. This is taking jobs away from many people that can work seasonally or through their schooling.

AHH, but if said Juan, Pedro, Jorge or other were here legally, they would qualify for those benefit plans which apparently is going to raise the cost of my cheeseburger 25 cents...

I dont have a maid service - my wife and I clean our house. When we buy a house if it needs painting I am fully capable of doing that. I spent a couple weeks painting my parents house as my rent for a period in my 20's. If I need my house roofed and I have friends able to do it - I would go that route. Why - because its less expensive for me to do the work myself.

Just because we have made illegal immigration a staple in our economy doesnt mean it is correct or moral. It means that we value them less, because they are cheaper than someone else. If someone wants to come here - great come on aboard - just do it legally.

I would also say that if you are hear illegally - you dont have a right to vote - you shouldnt get "free medical". You want those rights great then earn them.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Do I understand that illegal immigration changes the landscape of our economy?

Sure I get that some guy named Juan, Pedro, Jorge or other is working for less than the minimum wage or reduced hourly wage. I get that by doing that the employer is "saving expenses". Is that fair to the immigrant who gets no SSN paid in, employer contribution to healthcare, 401k or other benefits? Its a crime for the employer to do that the illegal. It also put the illegal immigrant to some degree at a competitive advantage because they are willing to take less money to work at the deli or putting on a roof or whatever job they land. This is taking jobs away from many people that can work seasonally or through their schooling.

AHH, but if said Juan, Pedro, Jorge or other were here legally, they would qualify for those benefit plans which apparently is going to raise the cost of my cheeseburger 25 cents...

I dont have a maid service - my wife and I clean our house. When we buy a house if it needs painting I am fully capable of doing that. I spent a couple weeks painting my parents house as my rent for a period in my 20's. If I need my house roofed and I have friends able to do it - I would go that route. Why - because its less expensive for me to do the work myself.

Just because we have made illegal immigration a staple in our economy doesnt mean it is correct or moral. It means that we value them less, because they are cheaper than someone else. If someone wants to come here - great come on aboard - just do it legally.

I would also say that if you are hear illegally - you dont have a right to vote - you shouldnt get "free medical". You want those rights great then earn them.

Here's a basic flaw in how you perceive things BG, and I do respect your position, You make it clear you think illegals are only from south of the border by your use of the names--Jose, Pedro and Jorge--sure you qualify it with öther" but the main thing I take from your post is that you only have issue with the brown guys from mexico (or further south) It may not be your intent, but it's an example of why people bring up political correctness and it's impact.

If your intent was to communicate that ANYONE here illegally impacts our economy, it was derailed by your choice of words.

I know you're not a big fan of PC speech, so I'm not surprised, but what is surprising to me is that most people point to the illegals who do menial jobs as keys to impact on our economy and ignore the others working here illegally in all kinds of jobs.

I had a friend I'd known for 10+ years who was a director, assistant to Stephen Sondheim when he was writing Ínto the Woods' He ran one of the other theatres in town when I was Executive Director at mine. I never knew he was a Canadian citizen who'd been working illegally in the US for 20+ years until they found him and deported him. How many of THESE types of foreign nationals here working illegally are not even thought about let alone spoken about in the crusade to make Illegal Immigration all about the brown folks from down South?


You want to seriously address the issue? Make sure you know what it actually is before trying to do so.

[dslaw]

HBO's news show Vice had a piece about Alabama and immigrants a while ago. Here is a link to an article about some of its effects. The show is available online and a good watch if you haven't seen it. Although, to be fair, I assume the show was looking for bad effects of this law and if they found good results they can be ignored while we focus on the bad parts.

http://www.vice.com/read/what-alabamas-failed-anti-immigration-law-can-teach-us-about-donald-trump