Colin Kaepernick Sideline Protest...

[baldgriff]

Guess I fall in the camp that people can say what they want - no matter how stupid.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Guess I fall in the camp that people can say what they want - no matter how stupid.

Let's say you ran a local hardware store. You're telling me you wouldn't mind if the cashier was telling racist jokes to customers as they came through the checkout line?

[mjl]

Well, sure, they can, but their employers and co-workers have to consider whether it's good to keep associating with them then. If a hundred or a thousand or a million people decide that they don't like the Mariners or baseball because of a guy's comments, that needs to be taken into account.

If I went around on this board saying "Hitler had some great ideas", I don't know if anyone would explicitly tell me that I'm not allowed to say or think those things. But if my saying those things made other people quit the board and new people not want to sign up, the board is probably better off banning me, isn't it?

[Hornsby]

Guess I fall in the camp that people can say what they want - no matter how stupid.

Again, it's quite simple...people CAN say anything that they want, they ALSO need to understand that there may be consequenses.

[revo]

Guess I fall in the camp that people can say what they want - no matter how stupid.

Let's say you own Baldgriff Burgers, a burger-flipping joint. You poured all the money you have in the world into this place, and have owned it for years. It's your only source of income. One of your cooks, a low-level employee, tweets out on his own time that he can't stand minorities, and it goes viral locally. An article even runs in the local paper that a Baldgriff Burger employee hates minorities. Because of this, you can expect to lose business, maybe a lot of it.

You're telling me this is OK with you because he did it on his own time?

[baldgriff]

Let's say you ran a local hardware store. You're telling me you wouldn't mind if the cashier was telling racist jokes to customers as they came through the checkout line?

That cashier is not on their own time because he is working. He would be held accountable to the employer. When hes sitting in his basement swilling a beer - say what you want. I think I was pretty clear earlier that if there is some contractual agreement for language outside of work - then you have agreed to that. While at work the employer certainly can ensure that you are not telling jokes that are racist in nature, or sexually harassing, etc...

[baldgriff]

I remember when Rand Paul said that the Civil Rights Amendment should not apply to businesses. The sentiment remains as stupid now as it was then. What a morally bankrupt philosophy you people hold on to.

Thanks for the morality judgement again...

[baldgriff]

Again, it's quite simple...people CAN say anything that they want, they ALSO need to understand that there may be consequenses.

Im not saying that their shouldnt be consequences and clarified that if there is some contractual agreement then if you agreed to it then be prepared.

If there is no contractual agreement about what I say when Im on my own time - then employers should not be suspending or fining

[revo]

Im not saying that their shouldnt be consequences and clarified that if there is some contractual agreement then if you agreed to it then be prepared.

If there is no contractual agreement about what I say when Im on my own time - then employers should not be suspending or fining

Can you answer my post above?

[TranaGreg]

interesting topic. I was going to post that it's a fine line - if the employer, say the burger-flipping joint, was going to have an employee contract that must be signed before hiring (similar to MLB's social media contract), stating that the employer will be monitoring the employee's social media posts for unsavory comments that could reflect poorly on the business owner, well, that doesn't necessarily seem right. But that made me go back & read the wording of MLB's social media policy that mjl posted above ... reposting here ...

7. Displaying or transmitting Content that is derogatory or insensitive to individuals based on race, color, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, age, disability, or religion, including, but not limited to, slurs, jokes, stereotypes or other inappropriate remarks.
8. Displaying or transmitting Content that constitutes harassment of an individual or group of individuals, or threatens or advocates the use of violence against an individual or group of individuals.

That's really quite specific, and I wouldn't have a problem with the burger-joint owner putting a similar policy in place. It's probably a bit creepy that the owner of a burger joint is monitoring his teenage employees social media posts, but I suppose it is well within his/her rights to do so, as long as it's not abused to spill into subjective assessments that could lead to more problems.

[baldgriff]

Let's say you own Baldgriff Burgers, a burger-flipping joint. You poured all the money you have in the world into this place, and have owned it for years. It's your only source of income. One of your cooks, a low-level employee, tweets out on his own time that he can't stand minorities, and it goes viral locally. An article even runs in the local paper that a Baldgriff Burger employee hates minorities. Because of this, you can expect to lose business, maybe a lot of it.

You're telling me this is OK with you because he did it on his own time?

Honestly, I believe a person right to their opinion (freedom of speech) [yes I know the govt cant impede] is more valuable. Will I have a conversation with the employee? Probably.

That said, I find the hypothetical really silly because again who is really going to care what a low lever burger flipper is going to say. I dont know as an employer if I would have some contractual language about social media.

[mjl]

Im not saying that their shouldnt be consequences and clarified that if there is some contractual agreement then if you agreed to it then be prepared.

If there is no contractual agreement about what I say when Im on my own time - then employers should not be suspending or fining

I think that worked better thirty years ago where if you walked into a bar and talked shit about something, that was as far as it went. Now that there's Twitter and video cameras in everyone's pocket, stuff blows up a lot faster. Note that even if your social media isn't being monitored, if you say stupid shit and someone gets it on video, it's going to be out in the world.

Anonymity helps - if Clevenger had a Twitter account that wasn't tied to his employment and saying that stuff, none of the fallout would have happened. And if people somehow magically shifted and everyone decided that what an employee says doesn't reflect on their employer, that'd be nice too. But even then it's hard to do that for really highly paid employees where you have the perception that when you buy from the company you're paying that guy's salary (Vick, Mel Gibson, Charlie Sheen, etc)

[baldgriff]

I dont have a Twitter -

We have enough difficulty communicating by written word for whatever reasons. Limiting people to 140 characters makes it that much worse.

[Fresno Bob]

Boo fucking hoo.


So I'm driving through Jackdick, Minnesota. Just a stop, I assure you, on the way to my end destination. I pull over at a gas station. A man, a very scary man (I know he's scary because he looks VERY differently than I) walks up to me and asks me if I believe in Allah. I say, "no, not really." He then not too kindly lets me know that infidels are not welcome at his gas station and that I should go somehwere else. "But yours is the only gas station in town!", I protest. Well, tough shit. Businesses should be able to serve whichever customers they want.



So I'm driving through Whitesonly, Tennessee. My car blows a flat and I crush my leg in the resulting accident. My wife, who is Hispanic, is also injured. We are airlifted to the local hospital, which is 50 miles away. But it's a private hospital. And, oh, they don't take care of Hispanics. Tough shit. Businesses should be able to serve whichever customers they want.



But hey, at least my wife could tell her friends about the horrible experience she had in Whitesonly, Tennessee. Or....OR....we could have laws in this fucking country that disallow businesses from treating people differently based on the color of their skin. I get that you are afraid of Muslims and are very willing to provide excuses for white racists and the like, but don't make the mistake of thinking that you should be spared a morality judgment based upon the things you say.

don't get all hung up on facts and examples, Hillary

[revo]

Honestly, I believe a person right to their opinion (freedom of speech) [yes I know the govt cant impede] is more valuable. Will I have a conversation with the employee? Probably.

That said, I find the hypothetical really silly because again who is really going to care what a low lever burger flipper is going to say. I dont know as an employer if I would have some contractual language about social media.

Wow, seriously? Did you read about the buffoon vet who shot a cat with an arrow in her spare time, and posted the pic on Facebook? Or the schmucks who post pics wearing blackface, or dressed as twin towers at a comic convention, replete with falling dolls? How about the chick who went to a costume party dressed as a Boston Marathon victim? How about the PR employee who joked about getting AIDS when travelling to Africa, but then said she wouldn't because she's white? Were these silly?

I'm pretty sure none of these employers had social media clauses in their employment contracts (which is largely meaningless, since most employees are at-will). And yeah, I'm pretty sure any small business owner will fire any employee instantly if they post inciteful nonsense on social media.