White House Releases Obama Birth Certificate

[Kevin Seitzer]

That's the dumbest f*cking thing you've ever said, you pinko commie!

With your courteous permission, I request to kindly register a slight bit of dismay with that less than fully exemplary attitude.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I oppose civility mandates/regulations. I have no problem with public exhortations to disagree with each other more agreeably.

yeah but calling someone a dick, when they deserve it is so satisfying!

[Wonderboy]

With your courteous permission, I request to kindly register a slight bit of dismay with that less than fully exemplary attitude.

I am sufficiently chastised.

:muttering under his breath: Dick...

[chancellor]

That's the dumbest f*cking thing you've ever said, you pinko commie!

Be nice, or B-Fly will bestride you like a colossus.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Be nice, or B-Fly will bestride you like a colossus.

makes it easier to kick him in the nuts.

[Lucky]

Be nice, or B-Fly will bestride you like a colossus.

What's the past tense of bestride? Bestrode?

[chancellor]

What's the past tense of bestride? Bestrode?

That sounds like something that you could be arrested for in Arkansas in the 1970s....

[Judge Jude]

I don't like Savage at all, except for his dog and boat tangents (people are complicated, as I like to say). I love that we live in a country where he can vent like he does. And that Air America took so many inane calls for years about how Bush planned the 9-11 attacks and got "the Jews" out of the buildings.

Both parts of those statements are preposterous, but I don't want the government shutting down "unacceptable" commentary of any kind, pretty much.


"[Savage] is banned from appearing in the UK because he's an extremist."

Do you think he's actually more dangerous than, say, countless Middle Eastern terrorist group leaders who can enter the UK at will? If Savage lands in London (and he has a history there from his advanced botany background), do you think he's likely to open fire on innocent civilians? Or anyone?

He's seen as dangerous because he says outrageous and unpopular things. But I don't know that he's ever called for violence. There's a big difference.

There are two VERY separate free speech issues.

- One is the First Amendment. If the government gets to decide who gets to speak, it can get very scary real fast.

- The other is the marketplace. Say what you want, but you might lose all your customers. That's the public making their own choices.

Too often the two are intermingled.

[Judge Jude]

Haven't heard those specifics, but he's not exactly organizing a group a la Hamas, is he?

He rants and he's awful. And if he is silenced, many on the left are doomed as well.

I'd say either push to eliminate unpopular speech on both sides, or neither. I vote neither.

But don't pick just one...

And I have 2 nephews on the autistic spectrum, one with Down Syndrome and the other with Asperger's on the other end of it. I can be offended and still defend someone's right to speak. That is the American Way.

Governmental shutdown of speech is more dangerous than stupid public comments.

I thought tolerance was about letting all sides speak [outside of shouting fire in a crowded theater or burning a flag at a WFW rally], not just the preferred versions.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Haven't heard those specifics, but he's not exactly organizing a group a la Hamas, is he?

He rants and he's awful. And if he is silenced, many on the left are doomed as well.

I'd say either push to eliminate unpopular speech on both sides, or neither. I vote neither.

But don't pick just one...

And I have 2 nephews on the autistic spectrum, one with Down Syndrome and the other with Asperger's on the other end of it. I can be offended and still defend someone's right to speak. That is the American Way.

Governmental shutdown of speech is more dangerous than stupid public comments.

I see you clarified as I was responding here. I'd love to see his voice and others like him silenced, but by the marketplace, not by the government.

[Judge Jude]

"I see you clarified as I was responding here. I'd love to see his voice and others like him silenced, but by the marketplace, not by the government."

Two different animals, as you well know.

Although a well-organized public boycott against a well-known media personality may incite an arms war, so to speak.

Not nearly as scary as government stepping in, but I would not hail Michael Savage being ousted, and then Randi Rhodes on the left, and then....

[Judge Jude]

Well, if calls for violence as you descibe it are eliminators, then many on the left have a lot to worry about as well, I think...

[OaklandA's]

Well, if calls for violence as you descibe it are eliminators, then many on the left have a lot to worry about as well, I think...

I don't think anyone here is calling for government shutdowns of people like Savage. Just that we wish people would come to their senses and ignore them. I'm not quite sure why you and Chancellor are defending their rights so strongly, since no one here is calling for government censorship.

[Judge Jude]

Savage is already banned in the UK, and I fear far-left speaker speakers there will soon be in the same boat.

Not sure why the sentiment might not expand here.

I also sometmes sort of wish that people would follow what most of us agree are rational parameters.


And if they don't?

[chancellor]

I don't think anyone here is calling for government shutdowns of people like Savage. Just that we wish people would come to their senses and ignore them. I'm not quite sure why you and Chancellor are defending their rights so strongly, since no one here is calling for government censorship.

Simple: because many are calling for censorship, even if they're not on Rotojunkie. The trend toward censorship of free speech is sadly advancing at far too great a rate for my liking. As I mentioned earlier, the most egregious violations are on college campuses. But I'm under no illusions that either the right or left would love to censor free speech they disagree with, and that's what's at the center of the political movement toward "civility". In my own state, for example, Tammy Baldwin and Herb Kohl were quite vocal about "civility" after the Gifford shooting, but couldn't find the energy to provide any worthwhile condemnation of the hundreds of violent placards and speeches given during the whole union standoff in Madison. It's clear they're simply examples of politicians on both sides of the aisle that hold this simple belief: Free speech is great until you disagree with me. Then you're "uncivil". Then you're "inciting violence". Then you're "racist". Then you're "immoral".