Warning: Religious/Political Conundrum!!

[B-Fly]

If your path as a Christian is to be like Jesus, how do you reconcile yourself when you fight to keep the means to add material possessions at the expense of the poor.
IE: How can you own more than one home, more vehicles than you need for transportation to and from work et all, Boats and other luxuries when people in this country are dying from starvation or lack of basic necessities such as heat, clothing and medical care and still call yourself a Christian?

I ask this because if I'm understanding Matthew correctly, Jesus said give EVERYTHING away, not some, not 33% everything. he also said if you don't help feed/clothe/care for the poor you're screwed too.

If I've misunderstood this, please clarify things for me.

Finally, if you feel you've done your part, isn't it your Christian duty to encourage those who haven't done theirs, to do so? If so, why fight against legislation that would force those who are not to do so? Or at the very least, call them out as false Christians.

I don't necessarily see a contradiction from a religious perspective, as Judeo-Christian faith emphasizes free will and expects that the holy man/woman will do the right thing by choice. As Lucky, T-Mac, Gregg, KS and others have noted, however, we see in modern practice that the cumulative choices of individuals have proven inadequate at addressing certain ills that I, for one, believe we collectively should not leave unaddressed. It is in those instances where the mechanisms of government often provide a better path for collective good work than the random confluence of private choices.

[senorsheep]

I don't think that's a true statement of the beliefs of conservatives, particularly if you are equating the private sector with businesses and corporations. If the private sector means individuals, non-profits, and religious organizations, then that would probably be a fair statement, as I understand it, but then your criticisms about Wall Street would not exactly apply.

Again, we all see things through the prism of our own experiences. The predominating conventional wisdom around here seems to be that financially successful people are all greedy c*cksuckers sleeping on mattresses stuffed with money while they dream of stepping on the throats of the poor to get their next dollar. My ex was heavily linked into the whole charity/ social scene here in Denver, and we used to volunteer at events two or three times a month where these supposedly horrible wealthy people would happily dash off four- and five-figure checks for all sorts of good causes for the needy. So, this notion that there's no willingness or desire among the rich to help the poor... I don't get it. That's certainly not been my experience.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I don't necessarily see a contradiction from a religious perspective, as Judeo-Christian faith emphasizes free will and expects that the holy man/woman will do the right thing by choice. As Lucky, T-Mac, Gregg, KS and others have noted, however, we see in modern practice that the cumulative choices of individuals have proven inadequate at addressing certain ills that I, for one, believe we collectively should not leave unaddressed. It is in those instances where the mechanisms of government often provide a better path for collective good work than the random confluence of private choices.

Like I said--I don;t know the entirety of the Bible, just a little bit here and there. I guess it's like anything else, every Christian sees things his own way, interprets the word of God his own way (or his church's) and applies that to his life his own way.

I'm on board with sentiments like your Brian and Mikes (Gregg's too) in that we all should help and have Govt aid in helping those our charity (and others) seem to miss. And though i do believe as Sheep pointed out, that some rich are greedy c*cksuckers (Al Swearingen says hi) would step on their own mothers throat on the way to another dollar, I don't think they all feel that way and I know they donate money to charities (I ran a non profit for 5 years remember) I return to the Widows mite in that a 4-5 or 6 figure donation from someone with billions pales in comparison to those people who have nothing yet still give and/or help the poor. But i guess something is better than nothing eh?

[In the Corn]

Like I said--I don;t know the entirety of the Bible, just a little bit here and there. I guess it's like anything else, every Christian sees things his own way, interprets the word of God his own way (or his church's) and applies that to his life his own way.

I'm on board with sentiments like your Brian and Mikes (Gregg's too) in that we all should help and have Govt aid in helping those our charity (and others) seem to miss. And though i do believe as Sheep pointed out, that some rich are greedy c*cksuckers (Al Swearingen says hi) would step on their own mothers throat on the way to another dollar, I don't think they all feel that way and I know they donate money to charities (I ran a non profit for 5 years remember) I return to the Widows mite in that a 4-5 or 6 figure donation from someone with billions pales in comparison to those people who have nothing yet still give and/or help the poor. But i guess something is better than nothing eh?

The question is what is the heart of the person making the contribution. The widow, while making a small contribution (a couple of pennies) could in the back of her mind be thinking, "Perhaps if people see me, they'll take pity on me, and I'll gain from that." While the rich person could be saying, "I have a lot of wealth and my will states that 9.5 billion of my 10 billion will go to charities of my choice when I die." Would you not respect the billionaire more in this scenario?

[GwynnInTheHall]

The question is what is the heart of the person making the contribution. The widow, while making a small contribution (a couple of pennies) could in the back of her mind be thinking, "Perhaps if people see me, they'll take pity on me, and I'll gain from that." While the rich person could be saying, "I have a lot of wealth and my will states that 9.5 billion of my 10 billion will go to charities of my choice when I die." Would you not respect the billionaire more in this scenario?

To me, Intent is everything, so yes I would. I'd be nice to see a list of Billionaires who've donated 95% of their wealth to charity. I'd be able to voice my appreciation specifically, hell I'd write em a personal thank you letter.

[Hammer]

To me, Intent is everything, so yes I would. I'd be nice to see a list of Billionaires who've donated 95% of their wealth to charity. I'd be able to voice my appreciation specifically, hell I'd write em a personal thank you letter.

I would venture to say most of us would be like bilionaires to those who live in poverty in other countries or even the poorest areas in America. Should the be donating 95% of their money to help those people?

[B-Fly]

To me, Intent is everything, so yes I would. I'd be nice to see a list of Billionaires who've donated 95% of their wealth to charity. I'd be able to voice my appreciation specifically, hell I'd write em a personal thank you letter.

Per this Forbes blog and links, of the world's 793 billionaires in summer 2009, only 11 had given more than a billion to charity. 14 people gave more than a billion to charity, but for three of them, their gifts dropped them off the list of billionaires, so that's something noteworthy.

http://blogs.forbes.com/billions/2010/06/16/worlds-most-generous-people/

Bill Gates: $28 billion
George Soros: $7.2 billion
Gordon Moore: $6.8 billion
Warren Buffett: $6.7 billion
Eli Broad: $2.0 billion
James Stowers: $1.9 billion (dropped him off the billionaires list)
Herbert and Marion Sandler: $1.5 billion (dropped them off the billionaires list)
Michael Bloomberg: $1.5 billion
Li Ka-shing: $1.37 billion
Dietmar Hopp: $1.25 billion (dropped him off the billionaires list)
Michael Dell: $1.2 billion
Klaus Tschira: $1.1 billion
Stephan Schmidheiny: $1 billion
Ted Turner: $1 billion

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/24/billion-dollar-donors-gates-business-billionaire-philanthropy.html

[In the Corn]

To me, Intent is everything, so yes I would. I'd be nice to see a list of Billionaires who've donated 95% of their wealth to charity. I'd be able to voice my appreciation specifically, hell I'd write em a personal thank you letter.

See that's the rub, as Christians, we aren't suppose make such things public, otherwise our generosity is meant to build up treasure here on earth.

[GwynnInTheHall]

See that's the rub, as Christians, we aren't suppose make such things public, otherwise our generosity is meant to build up treasure here on earth.

I understand this, but don't you think Christians of all strips should encourage others to be charitable? And applaud any effort (even one by the Govt) to aid those in need?

[GwynnInTheHall]

I would venture to say most of us would be like bilionaires to those who live in poverty in other countries or even the poorest areas in America. Should the be donating 95% of their money to help those people?

Why do you continually toss this straw man into the mix? Sure our poorest aren't living in dirt with flies on their faces and they shouldn't in the richest nation on earth. I expect more from America, don;t you?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Per this Forbes blog and links, of the world's 793 billionaires in summer 2009, only 11 had given more than a billion to charity. 14 people gave more than a billion to charity, but for three of them, their gifts dropped them off the list of billionaires, so that's something noteworthy.

http://blogs.forbes.com/billions/2010/06/16/worlds-most-generous-people/

Bill Gates: $28 billion
George Soros: $7.2 billion
Gordon Moore: $6.8 billion
Warren Buffett: $6.7 billion
Eli Broad: $2.0 billion
James Stowers: $1.9 billion (dropped him off the billionaires list)
Herbert and Marion Sandler: $1.5 billion (dropped them off the billionaires list)
Michael Bloomberg: $1.5 billion
Li Ka-shing: $1.37 billion
Dietmar Hopp: $1.25 billion (dropped him off the billionaires list)
Michael Dell: $1.2 billion
Klaus Tschira: $1.1 billion
Stephan Schmidheiny: $1 billion
Ted Turner: $1 billion

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/24/bil...lanthropy.html

:amen:

[In the Corn]

I understand this, but don't you think Christians of all strips should encourage others to be charitable? And applaud any effort (even one by the Govt) to aid those in need?

Absolutely, but I don't know what other Christians are doing with their charitable dollars. Case in point, I have a gentleman at my church who is well off, not millionaire, but he and his family don't struggle to make ends meet. His family has a nice home and some toys. I know they give to the local church, but I have no idea how much, and I don't want to know. That is between them and the Lord. I believe that the Holy Spirit prompts us to know when we are giving at the correct amount. There is peace in your heart, not a gnawing feeling of, "I wish I hadn't given that much." or "I could give more, but I really want to buy X toy." That is different for each individual.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Eli Broad is, I believe, the guy who wanted to buy the Dodgers.

talk about giving to charity...