'16 Democratic Nomination Thread

[Hodor]

The whole super thing is getting silly. Is Hillary a life-long Democrat? Yes, simple answer. Is Bernie Sanders a life-long Democrat? No, also simple answer. So the party people, who are Democrats, are NOT going to change their vote over to someone who isn't even a member of the party...it really is that simple.

Then Bernie should just run as an independent right?

[baldgriff]

If Bernie runs as an Independent - he never gets near as much coverage as he has gotten (as limited and tilted as it is).

[Lucky]

If Bernie runs as an Independent - he never gets near as much coverage as he has gotten (as limited and tilted as it is).

Bernie's fans expected him to get coverage equal to HRC when he had 5%, which was crazy. They have complained about his coverage all the way. Now that he has made it a horserace, his coverage has been equal to or better than Hillary's. Yet the Berners keep complaining. I think it is their default mode.

[DMT]

Yet the Berners keep complaining. I think it is their default mode.

I'm beginning to think the same. I will honestly say that my support for him has softened due to the irrationality of many of his supporters.

[Hodor]

Bernie's fans expected him to get coverage equal to HRC when he had 5%, which was crazy. They have complained about his coverage all the way. Now that he has made it a horserace, his coverage has been equal to or better than Hillary's. Yet the Berners keep complaining. I think it is their default mode.

And being an apologist for the inequity of the process is the default mode for the rest of you. Yes, Bernie is getting more coverage because he's earned it. What did Hillary do to earn her coverage in the beginning? And why are major media outlets, such as CNN still slanting that coverage to show Bernie in the most negative light they can? If you have to run in one of the two major parties to have a realistic shot at the white house, then everyone doing so should be afforded the same opportunities and consideration in a fair and unbiased manner. Some of you are perfectly fine with Bernie running as a Democrat and hope that if he should fail to win the nomination that he will throw his support behind Hillary and not run as an independent splitting the ticket. However you're also perfectly fine with the fact that Sanders has not been afforded the same opportunities by the DNC and consideration by the super delegates as Hillary, which is bullshit. I will leave you with this. Being a Sanders delegate and experiencing the mindset of thousands of Sanders supporters, I can tell you that they are split pretty much down the middle on whether to support Hillary or not, should Sanders fail to get the nomination. Should Sanders win enough pledged delegates or be tied or close to Hillary in pledged delegates and the supers decide the nomination in Hillary's favor, there will be no support from the Sanders camp. It all comes down to New York. If he ties her there, he's still in it. If he beats her there, he's going to win it.

[Hodor]

I'm beginning to think the same. I will honestly say that my support for him has softened due to the irrationality of many of his supporters.

Please specify what you mean by irrationality.

[Lucky]

Please specify what you mean by irrationality.

I can answer that. Read your last post.

[Lucky]

And being an apologist for the inequity of the process is the default mode for the rest of you. Yes, Bernie is getting more coverage because he's earned it. What did Hillary do to earn her coverage in the beginning? And why are major media outlets, such as CNN still slanting that coverage to show Bernie in the most negative light they can? If you have to run in one of the two major parties to have a realistic shot at the white house, then everyone doing so should be afforded the same opportunities and consideration in a fair and unbiased manner. Some of you are perfectly fine with Bernie running as a Democrat and hope that if he should fail to win the nomination that he will throw his support behind Hillary and not run as an independent splitting the ticket. However you're also perfectly fine with the fact that Sanders has not been afforded the same opportunities by the DNC and consideration by the super delegates as Hillary, which is bullshit. I will leave you with this. Being a Sanders delegate and experiencing the mindset of thousands of Sanders supporters, I can tell you that they are split pretty much down the middle on whether to support Hillary or not, should Sanders fail to get the nomination. Should Sanders win enough pledged delegates or be tied or close to Hillary in pledged delegates and the supers decide the nomination in Hillary's favor, there will be no support from the Sanders camp. It all comes down to New York. If he ties her there, he's still in it. If he beats her there, he's going to win it.

What did Hillary do to deserve the coverage? She ran in 2008, came close to the nomination, and was the favorite in 2016 going into the season. That alone is enough to deserve coverage. Her standing in the polls, as compared to Bernie's, justified the disparity until he started gaining ground.

How are the media outlets slanting coverage to show Bernie in the most negative light they can? The coverage I see on him is very good. The only negative is that he has an uphill struggle against the math, which is not a critique of him.

Superdelegates are a fact of life. This isn't the first time for them. If Bernie didn't know they would tend to side with a lifetime Democrat, he's not as smart as we all think he is. But he knew. But a lot of Bernie fans I know had never heard of them before a few weeks ago. Newbies. Passionate, but green as can be.

I have a problem with anyone running as a Democrat who is not a Democrat, but I love Bernie so I can let that pass. If he wins, I think it will be wonderful. If he wins, the HRC backers better by God get behind him. If he doesn't win, his backers better by God get behind HRC. If he runs as an independent, he's a chickensh*t. If the Sanders camp doesn't support the nominee, they're chickensh*ts. That may be why we can't have a decent third party movement. No damn loyalty.

[Hodor]

I can answer that. Read your last post.

Come on Lucky, you're better than that. What specifically was irrational about my post? Point out the things that I said specifically that you think are irrational, and if you would, explain why you think they are irrational. Thank you for pointing out the enormous head start Hillary had over Bernie, coming into this race (I already knew what Hillary had done to earn the coverage) Telling me the supers are a reality that I have to accept is basically saying "we know it's bullshit, but we're going to fuck you anyway". If Bernie wins more pledged delegates he deserves the nomination. If the supers then give the nomination to Hillary, that is chicken shit. As you pointed out, this race has been Hillary's since 2008. For Sanders to overcome all of that and be in the position he finds himself in going into New York is nothing short of miraculous. Should he continue on to pull the upset, the supers better fall in line. If they don't, they deserve what they get. The Sanders camp is tired to death of the attitude of entitlement coming from HRC and her supporters. And yes, many many of them are green newbies, but isn't that exciting that Sanders has energized so many newcomers to the political process? As for the bias, you have no further to look than CNN and it's coverage of the debate and everything leading up to it. They make it sound like Bernie and his campaign were the problems with getting the debate scheduled and nothing could be further from the truth. PS, are you going to be there Sunday or just your son?

[chancellor]

If you were the FBI, wouldn't you do whatever it took to get this investigation wrapped now, rather than later? If I were in charge, I know what I would be telling my people. It is either there or it isn't. Do your jobs and let's get finished up. If you need more manpower, let me know, but I don't want this thing running any longer than it has to.

I'd think so, too. Though the director's comments today indicating they're slowing down. OTOH, they can't screw this up, either, so there could be very legitimate reasons for slowing down.

[Hornsby]

Yes Brian, Sanders should have run as an Independant, to answer your question, but he chose not to do so. In CHOOSING to run inside a party where he wasn't a member, he's also subject to the rules of said party, which include superdelegates who are lifelong Democrats, Dems who are loyal to a loyal party member, and have nothing at all to gain by siding with an outsider.

As Lucky has said, the coverage has been nothing but fair for the last several months. Why? because the media is insatiable about filling column inches and hours on the air. Bernie rallies were covered ad nauseum because of the rock show type of crowd they attracted. Now, it's old and dull, and they get covered as well as HRC rallies are. Which is by beat reporters assigned to the campaigns, and not a lot of extra unless something unexpected breaks out. Now the extra crews cover the GOP, simply because it's sexier. Two scumbags trying to see who can lie and cheat their way to the highest office in the land. It's a much better story for the cable networks, and the web sites.Ratings and money drive coverage, little else.

If he continues to pull off upsets (and be sure to look at the states that he won, the type of process, and the type of populations that they have, because it makes a HUGE difference in the general), and actually pulls ahead of HRC in bound delegates, then all bets are off and the supers will likely change their votes, or a lot of them will.

The irrationality comes because you, and others like you, keep beating the same dead horses...coverage, supers, why Bernie doesn't get a fair shake from the party. All have been asked and answered...sorry.

[Hodor]

Yes Brian, Sanders should have run as an Independant, to answer your question, but he chose not to do so. In CHOOSING to run inside a party where he wasn't a member, he's also subject to the rules of said party, which include superdelegates who are lifelong Democrats, Dems who are loyal to a loyal party member, and have nothing at all to gain by siding with an outsider.

As Lucky has said, the coverage has been nothing but fair for the last several months. Why? because the media is insatiable about filling column inches and hours on the air. Bernie rallies were covered ad nauseum because of the rock show type of crowd they attracted. Now, it's old and dull, and they get covered as well as HRC rallies are. Which is by beat reporters assigned to the campaigns, and not a lot of extra unless something unexpected breaks out. Now the extra crews cover the GOP, simply because it's sexier. Two scumbags trying to see who can lie and cheat their way to the highest office in the land. It's a much better story for the cable networks, and the web sites.Ratings and money drive coverage, little else.

If he continues to pull off upsets (and be sure to look at the states that he won, the type of process, and the type of populations that they have, because it makes a HUGE difference in the general), and actually pulls ahead of HRC in bound delegates, then all bets are off and the supers will likely change their votes, or a lot of them will.

The irrationality comes because you, and others like you, keep beating the same dead horses...coverage, supers, why Bernie doesn't get a fair shake from the party. All have been asked and answered...sorry.

Answed? Not hardly and basically what you're saying is, that the DNC gets to decide who is or is not a Democrat and to hell with actual Democrat voters. He HAD to register as one of the two major parties or he can't play president. This election will be the end of the two party system as both sides are looking at brokered conventions and both are willing to disenfranchise voters to nominate thier chosen one.

If you think this race has been fair.... Well then there's nothing more to be said.

BTW I love how pointing out injustice is complaining and not allowing it to be dismissed and ignored is being irrational

[Hornsby]

Answers are in Bold...

Answed? Not hardly and basically what you're saying is, that the DNC gets to decide who is or is not a Democrat and to hell with actual Democrat voters. He HAD to register as one of the two major parties or he can't play president. This election will be the end of the two party system as both sides are looking at brokered conventions and both are willing to disenfranchise voters to nominate thier chosen one.

Yes, the DNC gets to decide who is a Democrat or not, end of story. Sanders was not a member of the part, and only chose to caucus with the Dems because he needed them. This election will NOT be the end of the two party system...people have been saying such things for decades. And who says they are Democratic voters? They're voting for someone who is NOT a member of the Democratic party. Who they vote for after the conventions will answer if they're Democratic voters or not.

If you think this race has been fair.... Well then there's nothing more to be said.

Yup, it's been as fair as any election I've seen. So let's not say anything more about it then.

BTW I love how pointing out injustice is complaining and not allowing it to be dismissed and ignored is being irrational

Not facing realities is irrational, finding injustice where little to none exists is irrational. You make the call...this is how I see things.

[onejayhawk]

If you were the FBI, wouldn't you do whatever it took to get this investigation wrapped now, rather than later? If I were in charge, I know what I would be telling my people. It is either there or it isn't. Do your jobs and let's get finished up. If you need more manpower, let me know, but I don't want this thing running any longer than it has to.

That is pretty much what seems to be going on. Big, high profile investigations have just so. As I understand it, interviews of the higher-ups and targets are done last.

Of course, the FBI cannot indict. They can only forward a recommendation to Justice. If Ted Cruz is the Attorney General in ten months, we might see action, otherwise...

J

[onejayhawk]

President Justice General Cruz will make everything all right.

One of the three, not all three. I am getting resigned to the Donald at 1800 Pennsylvania. It's even worse than being resigned to Cruz in the oval office.

J