'16 Democratic Nomination Thread

[GwynnInTheHall]

Fixed

Careful, she'll stick her finger in your face.

[Lucky]

As noted elsewhere, Hillary and Bernie tell lies at nearly the exact same rate and both far less often (FAR less often) than their republican counterparts.

The supporters always call what the other guys does "lying". I don't think someone is lying every time a statement passes their lips which isn't technically true in every possible context under every possible set of circumstances. Sometimes they exaggerate. Sometimes they spin a little. Sometimes they rely upon bad information. Sometimes they are simply mistaken.

I think a lie requires a statement which is materially untrue and an intention to mislead. In my old weekly poker game, where lying was an both an art form and a pastime, we drew a distinction between between lies and non-lies based upon whether they were actually "told for the truth". Knowingly submitted a falsehood as the truth was considered a breach of protocol.

I don't think Bernie and Hillary are liars in the sense I use the word, although their supporters disagree, Bernie's supporters in ways most hysterical and even paranoid. I'm probably biased, but I think Trump and Ted Cruzynski tell a lie before they get out of bed in the morning. Kasich, I think, is a pretty honest guy.

[onejayhawk]

You should try for the bench.

J

[bryanbutler]

Careful, she'll stick her finger in your face.

better than a cigar in another place...

[Lucky]

I agree with you across the board. I'm just going solely by the determinations that PolitiFact has made about the candidates' public statements. It seems to be the case that both Bernie and Hillary misrepresent the truth, through exaggeration or repetition of bad information or whatever, at about the same frequency.

But they're both absolutely buried by Ted Cruz and Donald Trump, who misrepresent the truth at alarmingly high rates. Donald Trump has been rated "Mostly False" or worse 3/4 of the time (76%) and Ted Cruz 2/3 of the time (66%). I mean, holy crap.

And that information I posted was less up-to-date than current information. The group of Republican candidates, it can be fairly stated, has a huge problem telling the truth:

I went through the examples they listed, and this seems about right. Especially with the criteria they are using. It seems to me that Trump and Cruz are born liars, but maybe that some of the others just got caught up in one of the nastiest campaigns ever. I liked Bush and Rubio, sort of.

It still bothers me tremendously how my fellow Bernie supporters spend so much of their time accusing Hillary of lying and corruption when they have little to no idea what they are talking about. Like the thing about demanding her speech transcripts. What BS. As someone once said, if you can't drink their whiskey, take their money, and then vote against them, you have no business being in politics.

[dslaw]

From that chart I have learned one thing - I need to start lying and become a Republican. Rubio & Bush never had a chance. Dslaw for president in 2020!

[chancellor]

Bernie just crushed Hillary in Wisconsin. Almost a 13.5% gap, winning all but three counties, and by my count, 6 Congressional districts. I thought he'd outpoll the 2-4 point advantage most had him at, but nothing like this. This was an absolute political curb-stomping.

[baldgriff]

Is the tide turning?

[GwynnInTheHall]

Just another state and another win, ho hum...........

[Hornsby]

Again, math. Sanders won SIX more delegates that HRC in Wisconsin. HRC needs just a shade over 500 delegates to clinch the nomination, Bernie needs over 1200 to do the same...the numbers just don't compute for him.

Hopefully, the people that he inspired these last few month don't just forget about politics and go back to whatever they were doing, they need to stay involved and change the system from within if that's their desire. I think that Brian saw in Nevada what can happen if you just show up and get involved.

[DMT]

Again, math. Sanders won SIX more delegates that HRC in Wisconsin. HRC needs just a shade over 500 delegates to clinch the nomination, Bernie needs over 1200 to do the same...the numbers just don't compute for him.

Hopefully, the people that he inspired these last few month don't just forget about politics and go back to whatever they were doing, they need to stay involved and change the system from within if that's their desire. I think that Brian saw in Nevada what can happen if you just show up and get involved.

Reading through pro-Bernie articles, you'd think WI was a game changer. As much as I support him, he needs to step down if he loses NY. Beyond that it's just ego.

[Hodor]

These little town blues......

[onejayhawk]

Again, math. Sanders won SIX more delegates that HRC in Wisconsin. HRC needs just a shade over 500 delegates to clinch the nomination, Bernie needs over 1200 to do the same...the numbers just don't compute for him.

Hopefully, the people that he inspired these last few month don't just forget about politics and go back to whatever they were doing, they need to stay involved and change the system from within if that's their desire. I think that Brian saw in Nevada what can happen if you just show up and get involved.

To get the same number of bound delegates as Clinton, Sanders needs to out-count her roughly 1000 to 750, or 57%. Last night was not good enough to stay on target. Of course this all is based on the assumption that Hillary stays the course. The FBI may have something to contribute.

J

[Lucky]

To get the same number of bound delegates as Clinton, Sanders needs to out-count her roughly 1000 to 750, or 57%. Last night was not good enough to stay on target. Of course this all is based on the assumption that Hillary stays the course. The FBI may have something to contribute.

J

If you were the FBI, wouldn't you do whatever it took to get this investigation wrapped now, rather than later? If I were in charge, I know what I would be telling my people. It is either there or it isn't. Do your jobs and let's get finished up. If you need more manpower, let me know, but I don't want this thing running any longer than it has to.

[Hornsby]

The whole super thing is getting silly. Is Hillary a life-long Democrat? Yes, simple answer. Is Bernie Sanders a life-long Democrat? No, also simple answer. So the party people, who are Democrats, are NOT going to change their vote over to someone who isn't even a member of the party...it really is that simple.