Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[The Feral Slasher]

He was getting exactly what he wanted - I assumed that you knew that Trump could not literally hand over another sovereign nation to Putin even if he wanted to do so. Instead, he worked to alienate the Ukraine, defund it militarily, extort its leaders, work to weaken and/or even disband NATO, and try to instill pro-Russia lapdogs to run the country - all things 1000000% aligned with Putin's goals. Why on earth would Putin have risked undermining the greatest gift his country had been given by the west perhaps ever? And don't forget, Ukranians ended up electing Zelenskiy in April, 2019 (only two months after Rudy Guiliani's attempt to dig up dirt on Biden through pro-Russia Ukranian contacts) near the end of former guy's term and Zelenskiy, as we are all now keenly aware, is pretty far from a pro-Russia lapdog. Trump's efforts at extorting Ukraine were directed at Zelenskiy in the infamous "perfect call" for which he was impeached. When Joe Biden won, Russia lost the greatest western asset Russia had ever had. I think it's now obvious that Putin miscalculated that Biden would be weakened by the former guy's relentless efforts to bolster Russia and that the strength NATO could exert had been irreparably damaged by former guy's efforts. I bet he still thought he'd enjoy a strong bedrock of support, at least from the US Republicans, and probably thought that right up until the first couple days of his invasion - after all, his invasion was met immediately with a quote that Putin was a "genius" and the war was "savvy". And also don't forget that Trump said that he'd look to withdraw from NATO in his second term, a fucking nightmare that we barely avoided.

fair enough, makes more sense to me to invade when you have an ally, but maybe Putin and Trump just aren't that smart.

[Bene Futuis]

fair enough, makes more sense to me to invade when you have an ally, but maybe Putin and Trump just aren't that smart.

Or......OR.....all the other stuff that I just wrote.

[The Feral Slasher]

Or......OR.....all the other stuff that I just wrote.

I don't think you ever addressed my fundamental question, but I am ok with that

[The Feral Slasher]

So I'm pretty sure we don't need to wonder why Russia didn't start this war during Trump's term - Trump would have just done his best to hand it all right over, unlike Biden.

So if Russia invaded Ukraine while Trump was president, and Trump would have done his best to hand it all over to Russia....why did Russia not invade while they had an ally in the Whitehouse ? That is what I don't understand. Why wait for Biden to oppose the invasion ?

EDIT: your statement above was that if Russia invaded Trump would have done his best to give them Ukraine. So I'm trying to understand why that is a reason for Russia to wait for a less friendly government to start the invasion.

[Bene Futuis]

So if Russia invaded Ukraine while Trump was president, and Trump would have done his best to hand it all over to Russia....why did Russia not invade while they had an ally in the Whitehouse ? That is what I don't understand. Why wait for Biden to oppose the invasion ?

Because the things Putin wants to accomplish vis a vis Ukraine were being actively helped along by Trump and the pro-Russia Republicans already. Putin wanted three things: a weakened (or nonexistent) NATO, a pro-Russia Ukrainian government, and a weakening of western democracy. In those desires, he had/has a brother in arms in Trump. Dream come true for Russian interests. Why would Putin risk that? But, in the end, Putin committed a series of serious miscalculations: First, that the entire US' resolve was weakened by Trump's attack on American democracy. Second, his assumption that the relentless attacks on NATO would weaken the bonds of those countries with regards to Russian aggression. Third, that the pro-Russian factions of Ukraine would factor more prominently or that Ukraine would not be united in its resolve to fight the Russian invaders. Fourth, that Biden, faced with an insurrection and sedition from his own country's right wing, would be weak and lack resolve. And finally, that Russia's own citizenry would fall in line with the invasion. Without the useful idiot in office, who had outright said he wanted to achieve several of Putin's goals in his second term, Putin put his war plans into effect. And if we are to believe John Bolton, who also said that Trump asked if Finland was part of Russia (seriously), Putin just wasn't quite ready to start a war at the time and was waiting to see if useful idiot was going to be around another four years so he could advance at least some of that agenda without committing additional Russian resources. I can certainly envision a scenario in which Putin makes the same demand he just did - namely, that Crimea be known as Russian territory, and the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as recognized as independent states - and has a powerful orange ally who is fully willing to acquiesce and, as we know, has been working to advance the rest of the Putin agenda all along. I mean, would anyone really be surprised if Trump had given his tacit approval of the annexation of Ukraine? I wouldn't. But then he lost and an invasion, miscalculations and all, became necessary in Putin's eyes. Edit: It's a little hard to boil down all of this complicated geopolitical maneuvering to a couple sentences, but I will add that hopefully people remember that Paul Manafort - the pardoned Russian agent working as Trump's campaign manager - had already worked toward and succeeded in installing a pro-Putin loyalist to run Ukraine (Viktor Yanukovych). Ukranians, to their credit, kicked his worthless ass to the curb, sent him scurrying back to Moscow, and elected Zelenskiy near the end of Trump's term.

[Bene Futuis]

And right on cue, Rand Paul's grandson-in-law just got indicted by the DOJ for funneling Russian money into Trump's 2016 campaign. The grandson-in-law was a former Trump campaign staffer who, let me know if you've heard this one before, got pardoned by Trump.


I mean, I'm hoping against all hope that all this information, that all the murder and chaos and evil Vladmir Putin is foisting upon the world, will make conservatives understand just why everyone was freaking out about the right wing lovefest with Russia beginning in 2016. Surely the party of personal responsibility will own up to their role and complicity. Right? Sure.

[gcstomp]

Putin is popular in russia. Think about it, and it is obvious why.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-disinformation-is-so-effective-that-ukrainians-can-t-convince-their-own-families-in-russia-they-are-under-attack/ar-AAUMuyQ?ocid=entnewsntp

Ukrainians with family in russia, cant convince them that there is an invasion of ukraine. It is just a minor exercise to rid ukraine of drug addicts and nazis in power of small areas. Sort of the issue we have here in U.S. but like a million times worse. But even here, you have almost half the voting pop thinking Trump was robbed of election that he won.

We have people even here who do not get trump has acted as a putin puppet from start and thru years to today, and Mueller report showed absolute without doubt russian interference all the way back to 2016 elections, but for fact of a wimp interpretation of a non prosecution memo no charges filed, from then to the present day after day criminal acts from trump circle, where trumps daily rants, as well as aimed verbal assault on rep who speak facts in lieu of his nonsense, effectively preventing peaceful transition of power and effective present day governance. Just bombard with noise and nonsense, shaping minds of populace.

[Teenwolf]

Moron Joe thinks we should prematurely attack Russia. It's not a surprise folks following the news through MSM are coming to flawed conclusions.

Eyes on the ball, Trump isn't President. Speculation is irrelevant.

[DMT]

This guy is a caricature himself.

[Teenwolf]

This guy is a caricature himself.

Cryptic much? Who and what are you referring to?

[Bene Futuis]

It's not a surprise folks following the news through MSM are coming to flawed conclusions.

Lmao

[Bene Futuis]

Biden bans Russian oil imports. Pretty bold move, knowing it will spike fuel costs and increase inflation.

[Teenwolf]

Lmao

Make a point, for fuck sake.

I'm talking about Gregg repeating the bullshit of MSM saying we should attack Russia. I'm saying it's easy to see why people are so easily misled when MSM is such garbage. Either debate that or don't, but don't give me this condescending eye-rolling shit without a single word.

[Bene Futuis]

Make a point, for fuck sake.

I'm talking about Gregg repeating the bullshit of MSM saying we should attack Russia. I'm saying it's easy to see why people are so easily misled when MSM is such garbage. Either debate that or don't, but don't give me this condescending eye-rolling shit without a single word.

Edit: Lol - there isn't much to debate. I don't think we should attack Russia and whether or not some unqualified Youtube personality pseudo-journalist agrees with me on that is wholly irrelevant.

[Teenwolf]

What a fucking coward.