The new COVID thread

[The Feral Slasher]

Apparently local schools will be opening in person today/tomorrow. From what I've read it may become difficult to continue in person with the expected amount of cases impacting teachers, students, bus drivers, families, etc. Hard to fathom that some schools won't require masks and have inadequate ventilation at this point. I guess the plan is to deal with it until we can't. If you consider that a plan.

Just saw this, doesn't seem accurate to say the least.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/omicron-teaches-hard-lessons-us-schools-revamp-return-holidays-2022-01-03/

"We want to be extremely clear: the safest place for our children is in a school building," Adams said during a visit to an elementary school in the Bronx. Only one public school, P.S. 58 in Brooklyn, was closed on Monday due to lack of staff, a spokesperson for the city's education department said.

EDIT: not to say that keeping schools open is the wrong decision. Although in the NY to DC corridor it feels like schools should maybe go online. I just object to the outright lying to justify opening schools.

[rhd]

Has anyone else read this? https://eand.co/is-omicron-just-covi...d-15e4ed5e6d8e

I found it insightful

Thanx for this. The main point of this confirms what already was my understanding based on what happened w the 1918 flu pandemic where the 2nd wave was more severe than the first.

Also, the lesser point that current boosters become only 50% effective after only 10 weeks was eye-opening (if true, I've got only about 1 more week of efficacy). I heard today that boosters should be given every 5 months instead of every 6. Dont know who said this, maybe the CDC. But if the current data says that the effectiveness of current boosters last only 10 weeks, why is some entity recommending reboosting in 5 months?

One of the reasons I stopped posting regularly in these threads is the feeling that the more I studied this topic the less I knew, or at least the less I was sure of. The main things that I feel reasonably confident about are the things we knew early on. Like that for the vast majority of people the potential risks of vaccines are far outweighed by the benefits, that besides vaccines the best protection against infection are mask-wearing, social distancing and ventilation. I think we're doing reasonably well w the first 2 but woefully inadequate w the third re: both implementation and education.

My father's church stopped in-person services shortly after the pandemic and they still havent resumed live services almost 2 years later. He said they spent a lot of money disinfecting the entire building top to bottom. I think that if they had used just a small part of that money to buy a bunch of fans to vent the inside air outside and some hand sanitizer stations and did a temperature and proof of vaccination check at entry and enforced mask-wearing I think they probably could have safely opened a long time ago.

[The Feral Slasher]

Thanx for this. The main point of this confirms what already was my understanding based on what happened w the 1918 flu pandemic where the 2nd wave was more severe than the first.

Also, the lesser point that current boosters become only 50% effective after only 10 weeks was eye-opening (if true, I've got only about 1 more week of efficacy). I heard today that boosters should be given every 5 months instead of every 6. Dont know who said this, maybe the CDC. But if the current data says that the effectiveness of current boosters last only 10 weeks, why is some entity recommending reboosting in 5 months?

One of the reasons I stopped posting regularly in these threads is the feeling that the more I studied this topic the less I knew, or at least the less I was sure of. The main things that I feel reasonably confident about are the things we knew early on. Like that for the vast majority of people the potential risks of vaccines are far outweighed by the benefits, that besides vaccines the best protection against infection are mask-wearing, social distancing and ventilation. I think we're doing reasonably well w the first 2 but woefully inadequate w the third re: both implementation and education.

My father's church stopped in-person services shortly after the pandemic and they still havent resumed live services almost 2 years later. He said they spent a lot of money disinfecting the entire building top to bottom. I think that if they had used just a small part of that money to buy a bunch of fans to vent the inside air outside and some hand sanitizer stations and did a temperature and proof of vaccination check at entry and enforced mask-wearing I think they probably could have safely opened a long time ago.

completely agree with you on the part in bold. And I agree the whole disinfection of surfaces seems like a waste. Get good ventilation/filtration, get vaccinated and wear masks. I wish that had been a consistent message...might not matter anyway. There are enough people that just don't care which makes the battle almost impossible.

EDIT: at this point it's just everyman/woman for themself. Get vaccinated or not, wear a mask or not, stay home or not and hope for the best. Getting vaccinated and wearing masks/staying home if possible gives people a lot better odds.

[johnnya24]

Has anyone else read this? https://eand.co/is-omicron-just-covi...d-15e4ed5e6d8e

I found it insightful

That was like peering into the mind of man in the process of going mad. You can tell this guy was foaming at the mouth as he was composing this.

In short:

That was not a discussion about science, that was a mad rant by an extremist-pro-vaccine/science-nutjob who can't stand the fact that the pandemic might be ending, or that that the vaccine might not be the only cause of the end of the pandemic. If Omicron is the end of the pandemic, it (indirectly) justifies some of the arguments and positions held by his sworn social media enemies -- the anti-science / anti-vaccine / pro-Trump / anti-restriction lobby -- and it seems this guy would rather the pandemic paranoia continue rather than being told "I told you so" by his enemies. So he concocts a bunch of semantic arguments, and twists the facts to suit his needs and desires. It seem this guy NEEDS there to be a more serious variant so that he can be the one to say: "I told you so". These kind of people probably take great pleasure is non-vaccinated people dying.

That was so warped and full of contradictions. Kinda scary really - using "actual science" (his words) to contradict all the scientific data emerging on Omicron, to suit his own agenda so he can win his fight against the anti-sciencers.

----

When anyone with an IQ above 80 says the virus is becoming "less severe", it only refers to how the virus interacts with us. At a certain level of communication, the words "virus" and "pandemic" are interchangeable in how was talk about this whole situation. Why? because that's the the only thing that matters to us. We don't care about the virus in itself, we only care about how the virus effects our lives. In fact, the second we add an adjective like "severe" to this virus, we are humanizing it, that is to say, we are no longer talking about the virus as an isolated thing, but only a thing in relation to our world. The word "severity" can only relate to the viruses effect on the human. It can never be read as a property of the virus. So "more severe", "less severe", that's about us, not the virus. That's implied, we don't need to question that.

Things like this are inferred in language all the time. When I say "Don't Look Up" was a "cool" movie, I would be flabbergasted if someone ranted at me that movies can't be "hot" or "cold" because movies don't have a temperature. That's basically what this clown is doing because his mind has been so warped by the very thing he opposes - anti-science, pro-Trump, anti-vaxxer, free-dumb lobby. He has to win on his terms (like all extremists), and if can't win he will act-out - which for terrorists is to kill and maim, for bloggers is to rant and rave and create misinformation.

Similarly how he misrepresents emerging phrases such as "becoming like the common cold" - which he interprets literally as "becoming the common cold". There is no "common cold virus" - it's a series of viruses that effect us in similar ways because over the centuries/millennia they have developed a symbiotic relationship with us. There are probably millions of bacteria and viruses that have found equilibrium with us over the aeons. There's no reason to think Covid-19 won't fall into that family of relatively harmless symbiotic viruses - we kind of already are. Let's face it, Covid-19 isn't a super harmful virus anyway, even if we've had to rightly take stringent measures to protect most vulnerable.

To say the virus is becoming "less severe" is also to say the pandemic is becoming less severe, and this is partially a result of the success of the vaccine program and gradual natural infection immunity. As a final straw, widespread Omicron infection, once Delta has been displaced, seems like it could be the final nail in this pandemic as it will give mass-natural-protection. This guy clearly can't stand that fact.

For me, this mode of semantic argumentation is by far the most infuriating to deal with. Before social media it was easy to roll your eyes and ignore people like this. It's sad that today they have such a powerful platform, especially when they can spread their cancerous misinformation with disingenuous semantic half-truths with emotional force, and moreover, that ranting like this is accepted as a reasonable manner of communication and not desperation.

[revo]

The US topped 1m new cases yesterday, more than double the previous highest amount for a single day

[Moonlight J]

"To say the virus is becoming "less severe" is also to say the pandemic is becoming less severe, and this is partially a result of the success of the vaccine program and gradual natural infection immunity. As a final straw, widespread Omicron infection, once Delta has been displaced, seems like it could be the final nail in this pandemic as it will give mass-natural-protection."

I really want this to happen, but I'm also fearful of the complacency by some on this just assuming this would be the last round of things and we won't get another mutation. I'm pretty close to burnout myself because I want to return to normalcy and I'd actually like to be in the same room with a colleague again. I've been in a new job for 6 months now and still haven't physically met anyone I work with.

I found the article insightful because I get where the guy is coming from and that critical thinking is really being challenged by frustrations mounting from the sane as well as the insane.

[chancellor]

Just saw this, doesn't seem accurate to say the least.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/omicron-teaches-hard-lessons-us-schools-revamp-return-holidays-2022-01-03/

"We want to be extremely clear: the safest place for our children is in a school building," Adams said during a visit to an elementary school in the Bronx. Only one public school, P.S. 58 in Brooklyn, was closed on Monday due to lack of staff, a spokesperson for the city's education department said.

EDIT: not to say that keeping schools open is the wrong decision. Although in the NY to DC corridor it feels like schools should maybe go online. I just object to the outright lying to justify opening schools.

I'd venture to say that's a very accurate statement, not a lie. When weighing the failures seen in online education and lack of social interaction setting kids back months in educational development, along with the failure of a staggering number of homes to provide necessities for students they get at school, and the lack of a safe home environment for a lot of students as well, and then weigh all of those against the risk of a marginal additional spread of the Omnicron variant, I think the new mayor of NY makes a pretty good point.

[The Feral Slasher]

I'd venture to say that's a very accurate statement, not a lie. When weighing the failures seen in online education and lack of social interaction setting kids back months in educational development, along with the failure of a staggering number of homes to provide necessities for students they get at school, and the lack of a safe home environment for a lot of students as well, and then weigh all of those against the risk of a marginal additional spread of the Omnicron variant, I think the new mayor of NY makes a pretty good point.

Including the failures of online education and lack of social interaction is not at all safety related. If you want to include that it is a different discussion. With the current state of COVID in NY I don't see how anyone thinks the safest thing is to send kids to school. They aren't sending kids to school because it is the safest choice.

[chancellor]

Including the failures of online education and lack of social interaction is not at all safety related. If you want to include that it is a different discussion. With the current state of COVID in NY I don't see how anyone thinks the safest thing is to send kids to school. They aren't sending kids to school because it is the safest choice.

Lack of social interaction is most certainly a safety issue - it's a huge concern of both educators and administrators both short and long term. I can't speak to NY, but in my local area, in-class incidents were up more than 30% this year, which is the short-term concern. Long term, poor social development has been causally linked to worse to much worse outcomes in terms of self-harm and crime.

Moreover, you're ignoring the issue of school provided necessities. Just on meals provided, many kids depend on their schools to provide them breakfast and lunch - for example, my spouse's school has 97% of the kids on free school lunches, and about 90% get both breakfast and lunch. It's not possible to know how many of those kids go hungry if they're not in school, but suffice to say it's all too many of them. And an all-too significant number of them come from homes that are highly unsafe to moderately unsafe due to anything from both parents working during school hours to alcohol and drug abuse, mental health issues, and worse.

Compared to the highly minimal risk - not zero, but very, very low - poses to the school age population, I consider it a slam dunk that many, many more students are much, much safer in school than home, and that Mayor Adams assessment is dead-on correct.

Your mileage may vary, but calling new mayor a liar over an issue where he has solid data to support him is just wrong.

[The Feral Slasher]

Lack of social interaction is most certainly a safety issue - it's a huge concern of both educators and administrators both short and long term. I can't speak to NY, but in my local area, in-class incidents were up more than 30% this year, which is the short-term concern. Long term, poor social development has been causally linked to worse to much worse outcomes in terms of self-harm and crime.

Moreover, you're ignoring the issue of school provided necessities. Just on meals provided, many kids depend on their schools to provide them breakfast and lunch - for example, my spouse's school has 97% of the kids on free school lunches, and about 90% get both breakfast and lunch. It's not possible to know how many of those kids go hungry if they're not in school, but suffice to say it's all too many of them. And an all-too significant number of them come from homes that are highly unsafe to moderately unsafe due to anything from both parents working during school hours to alcohol and drug abuse, mental health issues, and worse.

Compared to the highly minimal risk - not zero, but very, very low - poses to the school age population, I consider it a slam dunk that many, many more students are much, much safer in school than home, and that Mayor Adams assessment is dead-on correct.

Your mileage may vary, but calling new mayor a liar over an issue where he has solid data to support him is just wrong.

I disagree.






And just to be clear I agree with a lot of your points. However, I was not referring to a long term policy, rather the consideration that COVID is extremely high in NYC right now and in the short term staying home seems to me to be clearly the safer option for the children, and their families and community. But not worth spending any more time on

[umjewman]

I disagree.






And just to be clear I agree with a lot of your points. However, I was not referring to a long term policy, rather the consideration that COVID is extremely high in NYC right now and in the short term staying home seems to me to be clearly the safer option for the children, and their families and community. But not worth spending any more time on

Man, the term "I disagree" has taken on a different meaning here. I don't know if it was a legitimate disagreement, or simply a classic FS "I disagree."

In conclusion, FORENSICS.

[The Feral Slasher]

Man, the term "I disagree" has taken on a different meaning here. I don't know if it was a legitimate disagreement, or simply a classic FS "I disagree."

In conclusion, FORENSICS.

It was both !

[Bene Futuis]

I'd venture to say that's a very accurate statement, not a lie. When weighing the failures seen in online education and lack of social interaction setting kids back months in educational development, along with the failure of a staggering number of homes to provide necessities for students they get at school, and the lack of a safe home environment for a lot of students as well, and then weigh all of those against the risk of a marginal additional spread of the Omnicron variant, I think the new mayor of NY makes a pretty good point.

Sure seems to me that he was talking specifically about COVID and omicron, not tertiary issues regarding food security and the like. Obviously the safest place for our children is not in a school building when it comes to COVID transmission. There are certainly other issues that play into the concept of "safety", like mental health concerns, food security, and domestic violence, though.


Edit: Err, yeah, what FS already said.

[revo]

I'm vaxxed with the booster. My wife is vaxxed. My mom who lives with us is vaxxed with the booster. My oldest son is vaxxed. My younger two sons are getting their 2nd shot this Friday.

At this point, I feel like my family is sufficiently protected enough to have them go to school without interruption, although I was expecting an interruption that didn't happen. I'm with Chance and Mayor Adams, keep the kids in school. If you're unvaxxed at this point with kids in school who are almost certainly going to be exposed, well, that's on you at this point.

[heyelander]

Kind of surprised she didn’t throw in a “Jews can’t stop the truth!”

she knows you can.