Covid Vaccine thread

[Sour Masher]

It sounds like it is a very, very small group that actually follow thru and quit. So I am not worried at this point. Much better to have vaccinated health care workers

EDIT: if anyone has data on the "exodus of workers" that would be interesting to see. I've only seen two datapoints. One was Massachusetts police where dozens of officers apparently resigned, but as of now only one has followed thru. The other was a hospital system with 34,000 employees where 175 quit. so less than 1%. Maybe there are locations where there are a much larger percent of people leaving, but I have not seen any reports on that. Not that I'm looking.

Wrong word, given the small numbers so far, but there seem to be lots more not leaving yet, but testing the waters. It seems like many want to see if there is enough push back to make for a large enough group that they can band together in large enough numbers to make enforcing the mandates impossible. I'm glad that is not happening so far, and I am not saying it will happen or it is at all likely to happen. But at a local level, the loss of even a small number of workers can hurt and represent a larger percentage than the small percentage we are seeing so far when looking at large areas.

Perhaps my level of concern over this possibility is higher than it should be by my getting a notice today from my kid's school about parents needing to drive their kids to school because of a lack of bus drivers, coupled with reading reports of more bus drivers threatening to quit or strike over vaccine mandates in NY. The email included a job ad if anyone of the parents wanted to be a bus driver, substitute teacher, or support staff, or knew anyone who wanted to fill those roles. My 2nd grader lost his teacher, as she is pregnant and simply did not want to put herself at risk. It has been a rotation of subs for a couple of weeks now, and the school district here has been desperate for subs, support staff and school bus drivers for awhile, which speaks to larger issues of equitable pay that I hope get addressed. Many of the areas of need that have long been understaffed that may be most affected by strikes or firings or people quitting are also areas that have overworked and underpaid employees. That may be a larger factor, but it all adds up to understaffing getting worse. I'd wager teacher staffing issues will get worse in NYC because of the mandates. This report suggested thousands of teachers and support staff in NYC would be forced out by the mandates, as only 81% of education workers are vaxxed in NYC right now: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/24/us/ne...ate/index.html

I am not arguing against the mandates by bringing up this concern. I brought up the issue, because no one else had brought it up. I am guessing Ken's point about unvaxxed nurses can be extended to teachers and education support staff, which is a fair point, working, as they are, with an unvaxxed population of students. I'm not saying it would be a good thing to keep those workers on, but merely that many areas are going to suffer because some people are willing to lose their job over getting the shots. Even if that number eventually falls from 20% to 2% of workers when push comes to shove, given that many schools were understaffed to begin with, it isn't going to be a good thing to figure out how to cope with such losses.

[chancellor]

CNN had an interview with two medical professionals about to lose their jobs, and when the interviewer brought up Pope Francis, one said "he's a hypocrite."

LOL...they can say whatever they want, but given the decision for exemptions was at the Bishop level, their chance for an exemption is almost zero.

[The Feral Slasher]

Wrong word, given the small numbers so far, but there seem to be lots more not leaving yet, but testing the waters. It seems like many want to see if there is enough push back to make for a large enough group that they can band together in large enough numbers to make enforcing the mandates impossible. I'm glad that is not happening so far, and I am not saying it will happen or it is at all likely to happen. But at a local level, the loss of even a small number of workers can hurt and represent a larger percentage than the small percentage we are seeing so far when looking at large areas.

Perhaps my level of concern over this possibility is higher than it should be by my getting a notice today from my kid's school about parents needing to drive their kids to school because of a lack of bus drivers, coupled with reading reports of more bus drivers threatening to quit or strike over vaccine mandates in NY. The email included a job ad if anyone of the parents wanted to be a bus driver, substitute teacher, or support staff, or knew anyone who wanted to fill those roles. My 2nd grader lost his teacher, as she is pregnant and simply did not want to put herself at risk. It has been a rotation of subs for a couple of weeks now, and the school district here has been desperate for subs, support staff and school bus drivers for awhile, which speaks to larger issues of equitable pay that I hope get addressed. Many of the areas of need that have long been understaffed that may be most affected by strikes or firings or people quitting are also areas that have overworked and underpaid employees. That may be a larger factor, but it all adds up to understaffing getting worse. I'd wager teacher staffing issues will get worse in NYC because of the mandates. This report suggested thousands of teachers and support staff in NYC would be forced out by the mandates, as only 81% of education workers are vaxxed in NYC right now: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/24/us/ne...ate/index.html

I am not arguing against the mandates by bringing up this concern. I brought up the issue, because no one else had brought it up. I am guessing Ken's point about unvaxxed nurses can be extended to teachers and education support staff, which is a fair point, working, as they are, with an unvaxxed population of students. I'm not saying it would be a good thing to keep those workers on, but merely that many areas are going to suffer because some people are willing to lose their job over getting the shots. Even if that number eventually falls from 20% to 2% of workers when push comes to shove, given that many schools were understaffed to begin with, it isn't going to be a good thing to figure out how to cope with such losses.

That makes sense. I am sure there will be some impact, unfortunately. Thankfully the majority of people seem to be all bark and no bite.

EDIT: I am sure there will be more impact in less lucrative careers such as bus driving compared to doctors/nurses and highly paid professionals.

[revo]

NY Gov. Kathy Hochul has said she will call in the NY National Guard to work in hospitals (those with medical backgrounds) if need be.

[Gregg]

It seems to me that anti-vaxers and anti-maskers are not so much about politics now as in the beginning. It seems to be more about control and fear.

When people feel that they have no control it causes fear and that leads to more controlling behavior. Often leading to rebellion to anything that suggest more loss of control and grabbing on harder to the things that seem within their control.

If you visited my state (Democrat) which has a mask mandate you would see the rebellion. I doubt there is even 50% mask wearers. 68% of the state has a least received one shot. There are plenty of Dems not vaccinated. While plenty of Repubs are, many are not. Is some of the reasoning for Repubs political yes, but more of loss of control than sound reasoning. I think the same for unvaccinated Dems.

[Ken]

It seems to me that anti-vaxers and anti-maskers are not so much about politics now as in the beginning.

I'd be cautious using anecdotal evidence to come to that kind of conclusion. In fact wasn't there an article posted here recently that suggested the complete opposite?

[Gregg]

I'd be cautious using anecdotal evidence to come to that kind of conclusion. In fact wasn't there an article posted here recently that suggested the complete opposite?

I don't know. I am not always up to date on the articles that are posted in the Hot Topics section.

As far as anecdotal conclusions for myself, I try to NOT think in terms of all or everyone. I do think observation has it's place in discussion. That is why I posted "seems to me." Just a talking point.

My comment on the politics side is more one of those hmm moments for me rather than I expect people to believe me as facts I am reporting. Hopefully some might add in their own observations to the discussion.

As far as the control and fear comments those are accepted in the mental health field and would be more individualistic. These would easily cross political and religious bounds. Get enough individuals and we get a pattern. Fear and Control has to be in the conversation at the very least. I hope that would be considered.

[Ken]

I don't know. I am not always up to date on the articles that are posted in the Hot Topics section.

As far as anecdotal conclusions for myself, I try to NOT think in terms of all or everyone. I do think observation has it's place in discussion. That is why I posted "seems to me." Just a talking point.

My comment on the politics side is more one of those hmm moments for me rather than I expect people to believe me as facts I am reporting. Hopefully some might add in their own observations to the discussion.

As far as the control and fear comments those are accepted in the mental health field and would be more individualistic. These would easily cross political and religious bounds. Get enough individuals and we get a pattern. Fear and Control has to be in the conversation at the very least. I hope that would be considered.

Understood.

Food for though, while completely innocent in intent, anecdotal stories can be very dangerous in these situations. IMO it's what is driving a lot of the disbelief in science. If you have 10,000 people who get vaccinated and 1 of them has an adverse reaction, that one story can make a vaccine look "dangerous", when compared to what it's vaccinating against, it is not at all.

[DMT]

I'd be cautious using anecdotal evidence to come to that kind of conclusion. In fact wasn't there an article posted here recently that suggested the complete opposite?

Here it is again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/briefing/covid-red-states-vaccinations.html

[Mithrandir]

Here it is again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/b...cinations.html

Can't read NYT articles as they are blocked without a subscription

[Ken]

Can't read NYT articles as they are blocked without a subscription

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/red-covid-in-u-s-the-coronavirus-partisan-pattern-is-growing-more-extreme/

[nullnor]

they gave Biden his booster shot wrong. you are supposed to inject the vaccine in muscle. so you are supposed to slightly pull back and see if there is any blood. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab707/6353927 Intravenous Injection of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) mRNA Vaccine Can Induce Acute Myopericarditis

Conclusions
This study provided in vivo evidence that inadvertent intravenous injection of COVID-19 mRNA vaccines may induce myopericarditis. Brief withdrawal of syringe plunger to exclude blood aspiration may be one possible way to reduce such risk.

my own hypothesis of why males would be having an adverse affect more than females is because females have more fat in their skin.

watch him get the shot, they did it wrong.

additionally https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._of_ivermectin
A review of the anti-viral effects of ivermectin

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352331720_COVID-19_and_Ivermectin_Potential_threats_associated_with_human_use

COVID-19 and Ivermectin: Potential threats associated with human use

so i can see their point that it's an important drug for what it's purposed for. but when has the potential for microbial resistance ever stopped anyone from overuse before. but that could be a reason for WHO objecting which would be correct.

ivermectin also acts as a 3cl protease inhibitor, 3cl protease is said to be an effective strategy in vivo against covid. interesting the new Pfizer pill is also a 3cl protease inhibitor it's just $700 more. although, they are structured molecularly different, it's funny reading the fact checkers trying to come up with different reasons to promote the latter and discredit the former.

but i would say if it's true, ivermectin only works in the first 48 hours, that does kind of make that drug useless for covid.

i spoke my peace

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2021.583387/full

Plant Products as Inhibitors of Coronavirus 3CL Protease

[chancellor]

they gave Biden his booster shot wrong.

The microchip needed to go in deeper.

[nullnor]

The microchip needed to go in deeper.

heh, i see what you did there ;D

[nullnor]

you don't want to double microchip ppl by mistake, that would be like double crossing the streams in Ghostbusters, creating a giant microchip.