A restaurant in Stillwater, OK

[GwynnInTheHall]

These were my questions:

If the owner was Inuit and wanted to call the place Eskimo Joe's would that be OK?

Who are the people complaining about the name?

This lead me to exaggerate on this page to clarify to others as to why I asked them.

Thank you for the extra homework. Did it by any chance mention the college? Was curious to see if it was local.

Frankly, it just looks like you're seeking some kind of justification to allow offensive names/words/images to be used.

[Sour Masher]

These were my questions:

If the owner was Inuit and wanted to call the place Eskimo Joe's would that be OK?

Who are the people complaining about the name?

This lead me to exaggerate on this page to clarify to others as to why I asked them.

Thank you for the extra homework. Did it by any chance mention the college? Was curious to see if it was local.

Yes, it was students from the local college that got the ball rolling on this.

[DMT]

Frankly, it just looks like you're seeking some kind of justification to allow offensive names/words/images to be used.

I don't think that's the case at all.

[Ken]

I don't think that's the case at all.

I agree

[TranaGreg]

These were my questions:

If the owner was Inuit and wanted to call the place Eskimo Joe's would that be OK?

Who are the people complaining about the name?

This lead me to exaggerate on this page to clarify to others as to why I asked them.

Thank you for the extra homework. Did it by any chance mention the college? Was curious to see if it was local.

I'm late to this so if I'm rehashing things that have already been addressed, apologies.

Just a thought re: the question of who are complaining about the name - Ken suggested earlier that it shouldn't matter, and I agree with him. The implication behind the question seems to be (please clarify if I'm mistaken) that if the people who are harmed are not the ones complaining then the ones complaining may have alternative interests at play ... and taking that a step further, that unless the people directly harmed complain, then no harm is being done. But that's obviously not true - people are harmed all the time & don't complain for a variety of reasons. SO I agree that the question is irrelevant - the more pertinent question is, are there people being harmed.

Oh and also - if the owner was Inuit, no I do not think it would be OK. He/she might use the word in personal interaction (and legitimately, as noted by others in this thread), but that's very different from using it as a business name, IMHO.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I don't think that's the case at all.

Then please explain to me that even after his questions have been answer, repeatedly and in many nuanced ways--he's still perusing this.

Gregg, here's the bottom line--No Nuance just they way it is and should be:

WHITE people have been the one's who've created/used the offending Names/Slurs. Pretty much every Slur you can think of since this country was founded(stolen) was the White establishment/Race, assigning a term, predominantly to dehumanize/lessen a group of Non White, Judeo Christian people.

You do NOT use these terms, even if you ARE in the offended group, in general public. I can't name (and I bet you can't either) ANY business that has the N word incorporated in their marketing. Sure some Rap uses the word, but in any artistic genre, sometimes offensive words and language (and imagery) must be use to covey context (Mark Twain comes to mind and is STILL produced using the N word) But in the general public, to promote a business or Idea. Never. Period. It doesn't matter why or if you agree or not--Only that you understand it's offensive and you should respect the request to refrain from using that word.

Eskimo is indeed offensive (yet another word foisted upon a non white group of people) as it reflects a derogatory depiction of the Inuit and like other offended groups, the use of that term in society, shouldn't occur--even if the person is Inuit.

Again, there is NO justification for this guys bar to be named as such just as there was NO justification for the Washington Football team to keep the name Redskins--The owner is just a racist dick. I can only imagine the owner of Joe's Bar is one too.

So again--I believe Greg's questions have been answered very thoroughly and therefore can only come to the conclusion that he's looking for some instance where this use of a slur/offensive word is justified or he struggling with his comprehension skills at the moment.

Don't mean to be a dick, but that's what I'm seeing.

[Mithrandir]

Drawing a parallel with the term Eskimo, "Hunky" is apparently a derogatory term that is considered offensive when used to refer to Slovaks. I am 100% Slovak and have heard this term my entire life and no Slovak that I have ever known (and that's quite a lot of them) has ever been offended by the term.

So who decided that it was offensive?

If I saw business called "Hunky Joes" I wouldn't be offended.

My point is that it seems so many terms that were not necessarily considered offensive, now are considered offensive. But should they be? And how many of that offended group need to be offended before a term is considered offensive enough to force a change in usage? 10%, 25%, 50%??

[Sour Masher]

Joe's also has the Mexico Joe brand, with a similar, caricature-type logo of a guy riding a jalapeno and holding a taco. These dudes are all about appropriating naming their places using as mascots other type of people. What is up with that? Nordic Norm's German George, or whatever their background is, wasn't cool enough for them? I guess for the Mexican place, it makes more sense, because that is the cuisine of their restaurant, and Mexico Joe isn't an offensive term for Mexican, though changing its name is in the petition too.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Joe's also has the Mexico Joe brand, with a similar, caricature-type logo of a guy riding a jalapeno and holding a taco. These dudes are all about appropriating naming their places using as mascots other type of people. What is up with that? Nordic Norm's German George, or whatever their background is, wasn't cool enough for them? I guess for the Mexican place, it makes more sense, because that is the cuisine of their restaurant, and Mexico Joe isn't an offensive term for Mexican, though changing its name is in the petition too.

They didn't call it Beaner Joes did they? Nor was it Alaska or Canada Joes.

Address the term in question, the rest is straw man BS.


FYI Trader Joes got into trouble by naming their taco shells--Trader Jose's. They changed it when it was brought to their attention.

To no one in particular, how about this--Instead of your given name- I'll call you fuckface. I'll name my business Dickface's Drinkin Place and have a caricature of you (though recognizably you) with a Penis for a nose.........everyone else thinks it's OK, laughs, has a drink and shouts Hey Dickface! Only you and your family seem offended. Though some others think it's kind of a shitty thing too.

If you let it stand, you're a better person than I am

[Sour Masher]

They didn't call it Beaner Joes did they? Nor was it Alaska or Canada Joes.

Address the term in question, the rest is straw man BS.


FYI Trader Joes got into trouble by naming their taco shells--Trader Jose's. They changed it when it was brought to their attention.

To no one in particular, how about this--Instead of your given name- I'll call you fuckface. I'll name my business Dickface's Drinkin Place and have a caricature of you (though recognizably you) with a Penis for a nose.........everyone else thinks it's OK, laughs, has a drink and shouts Hey Dickface! Only you and your family seem offended. Though some others think it's kind of a shitty thing too.

If you let it stand, you're a better person than I am

I brought of Mexico Joe's, because as I dug deeper, I noticed the petition is trying to change its name as well, from the same ownership group. To me, that makes it relevant to the discussion. I see no strawman there, just an extension of the existing conversation. Reread my posts in this thread if you think I'm in favor of defending their names in any way.

I take it from your response, you see no issue with Mexico Joe. The folks who came up with the petition feel differently. Eskimo Joe's seems clear cut to me. Mexico Joe's seems to not be the same issue with the name, though the logo is the same sort, and I don't give much benefit of the doubt to these owners who, when faced with evidence their restaurant name offends Inuits, decides not to change it. But I defer to the Mexican community if they are cool with the branding. I do think it is different, and I wonder if in including it in the petition, those advocating for change are conflating two names and causes that they shouldn't.

[Gregg]

Then please explain to me that even after his questions have been answer, repeatedly and in many nuanced ways--he's still perusing this.It is called a discussion.

Gregg, here's the bottom line--No Nuance just they way it is and should be:Says who? Who is the authority on this?

WHITE people have been the one's who've created/used the offending Names/Slurs. Pretty much every Slur you can think of since this country was founded(stolen) was the White establishment/Race, assigning a term, predominantly to dehumanize/lessen a group of Non White, Judeo Christian people. Are you talking about your white people? My family has taught their children this is not anything close to an acceptable practice

You do NOT use these terms, even if you ARE in the offended group, in general public. I can't name (and I bet you can't either) ANY business that has the N word incorporated in their marketing. Sure some Rap uses the word, but in any artistic genre, sometimes offensive words and language (and imagery) must be use to covey context (Mark Twain comes to mind and is STILL produced using the N word) But in the general public, to promote a business or Idea. Never. Period. It doesn't matter why or if you agree or not--Only that you understand it's offensive and you should respect the request to refrain from using that word. so you are in agreement with me that the n word should not be used by anybody? and if you are not in agreement you are not following the line of questioning or the discussion

Eskimo is indeed offensive (yet another word foisted upon a non white group of people) as it reflects a derogatory depiction of the Inuit and like other offended groups, the use of that term in society, shouldn't occur--even if the person is Inuit. which leads to why can there be exceptions?

Again, there is NO justification for this guys bar to be named as such just as there was NO justification for the Washington Football team to keep the name Redskins--The owner is just a racist dick. I can only imagine the owner of Joe's Bar is one too.You can imagine, and you may be right, but you could also be wrong and you are not the authority.You do have a right to express your opinion... so do I

So again--I believe Greg's questions have been answered very thoroughly and therefore can only come to the conclusion that he's looking for some instance where this use of a slur/offensive word is justified or he struggling with his comprehension skills at the moment.You would be wrong to come to this conclusion.

Don't mean to be a dick, but that's what I'm seeing. would you find it funny or offensive if I said too late. I hope funny

Did you read the whole thread? I think you are seeing things that are not there.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Did you read the whole thread? I think you are seeing things that are not there.

I've read and followed the entire thig and until all white people get their heads out of their asses regarding Racism and connected slurs EVERY white person needs to spend every chance they can to change/make up for the shit we've benefitted from over the centuries--WHITE PRIVLEDGE has allowed you and yours to enjoy a better life (or the chance at one) than people of color--YOU may have not oppressed POC, but the fact they HAVE been oppressed has afforded you opportunities they, for the most part, have not enjoyed--at least not to the extent you and yours have.

I am an absolutist regarding this shit--If someone informs you that something offends them, you should try your best to respect it--If a Trans person asks you to use a specific pronoun when addressing/referring to them--you do it otherwise you're an inconsiderate Dbag. If you own a business and there's even a marginal chance it might be offensive, do something about it. YES, people of color can use whatever word the want within their own circle of people-there are those in that community who dislike and ask other POCs to not use the word, but some--are fine with it and again--YOU nor I need to understand nor question why, POC do NOT have to answer to us as WE have been the oppressors. It will be this way until there is EQUALITY, in practice and In Law and is proven to be reality, until then--sit back and take the asskicking we all deserve for not doing enough to make it so. Have you marched in a BLM rally? Changed your social media to reflect your support of the movement? Openly and aggressively admonished others when they share racist memes or tell off color racial jokes or talk shit about POCs? If you're not actively working to extinguish racism and make everything equal-YOU are part pf the problem

Opinions are shit if you can't prove an opinion contrary to yours wrong--Would you like a list of WHY Snyder is a racist dick? Google it, he ONLY changed the name because of the Millions he was about to lose if he didn't.

BTW I'm the fucking authority in my life, I have lost friends, family and other tangible things because I do NOT tolerate hypocrisy, ignorance nor bigotry in my life. Yes I am self ritghous, I have the moral highground and am a blowhard--but I've been right far more often than I've been wrong on this site and in my life and when I AM wrong, I own it-So when it comes to something like this--you either understand it or you don't and you obviously don't or won't.

It's offensive, take the fucking sign down--end of conversation.

[Sour Masher]

Yay, our dialogue has elevated to the point where defensiveness is inevitable. We are sure to progress from here.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Yay, our dialogue has elevated to the point where defensiveness is inevitable. We are sure to progress from here.

I'm not defensive--I'm right.

[Sour Masher]

I'm not defensive--I'm right.

No, Gregg will likely get defensive in response to your self-righteousness.