Corona Virus

[Ken]

I think the model apply would when compared to their Nordic neighbors, as I haven't read of a genetic difference between the virus among the Nordic countries.

You'd be surprised, I believe I read that Sweden's HLA-B27 rate was the highest of the Nordic countries which potentially makes them less susceptible to the symptoms of the virus, in relative terms, and therefore herd immunity is much easier to accomplish.

[nullnor]

not to be a conspiracy theorist but wanted to point out a phd researcher Chinese American from University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine on the so-called verge of some C19 discover was shot by someone Chinese. my best guess would be a love thing or a political difference thing. but what gets me is why the dude killed him than drove a mile up the road and shot himself. wouldn't you shoot yourself at the scene of the crime. driving a mile up the road is like those jason bourne movies where a handler makes it look like suicide. and then you have doctors in Russia falling out of windows recently.

i am the last guy to be a conspiracy theorist. but you should take note of these things. the russian doctor falling out of a window is probably more like don't criticize the government. and this researcher in america is probably on Chinese guy not agreeing with his politics so they probably knew each other and had some kind of work relationship. i just think it's weird you shoot yourself a mile up the road after. why would they say 'a verge on a coronavirus breakthrough'. that doesn't really jibe. first glance he had a PHD in computational science. that sounds more political.

worst case scenario, this coronavirus starts a nuclear war. worst case scenarios usually never come true. wars games scenario, last night i went to bed thinking we should nuke China. there's no better time than now. not that there is ever a better time.

btw that Gordon Chang guy, you can't really take his advice.

[Ken]

not to be a conspiracy theorist

I don't believe you

[nullnor]

you know what really upsets me is McCarthyism 40 or 50 years later is starting to look like it has some truth to it.

this is going to end up really bad. the whole world is going to turn on China. and they are not going to go out without a fight. Russia was easy, not that easy, but China is a different animal. Russia won't back China up right now. but China has enough nukes also to make the Earth uninhabitable. if we nuked them right now, no-one would back them up.

it didn't work. Hong Kong and Taiwan didn't democratize. invading the middle east, didn't democratize. not to mention, democracy is failing. it turns into either communism or fascism. either one works for a while though.

you shouldn't listen to me. i am an authoritarian. i prefer democracy, but if you want to save the world from ourselves, you have to have some kind of authority.. how that is set up, good luck. it can be done with freedom. but with responsibility.

it's entropy, all systems eventually fall into chaos.

[chancellor]

What of the UK's experts who initially tried herd immunity then quickly backtracked?

There's two factors in play there - first, the medical issue was based on initial advice from both the Imperial College, led by epidemiologist Dr. Anzi Ghani, and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. The Imperial College changed the advice to the PM about three weeks in based on trend of ICU beds available. So, again, highly reputable epidemiologists believed that herd immunity would be the best long-term solution, but short-term limitations prevented it's implementation. Britain's governmental medical experts miscalculations was likely rushing full-bore toward herd immunity. Sweden implemented some modest limitations - social distancing in food/drink establishments, for example, and has avoided the issue of ICU capacity. From what I've read, the gradual reopening of states will align much closer to Sweden's model than the initial UK model; if we were following the initial UK model, we'd be having baseball in two weeks with fans packed in.

Second issue is clearly political. Labour chose to present the views of the epidemiologists who disagreed with the government view and position, publicize it heavily, and make political hay. The #ToryGenocide posts were particularly ingenious. At about the same time the governmental medical experts were changing their point of view, Johnson's political team realized they had a losing hand. Again, Swedish politics are significantly less cutthroat than the UK's, so the level of opposition was much more muted.

[nullnor]

I don't believe you

i so don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. i am going to nominate you to call me out and make sure i don't become one. i don't think i will but you are my back up if i do and call me out.

[chancellor]

yit didn't work. Hong Kong and Taiwan didn't democratize.

Actually, Taiwan is quite the successful democracy. And they've handled this outbreak very well, by any account.

And you left off South Korea. I'll venture to say that democracy has done far better by any metric than their dictator-led brethren to the North.

[nullnor]

Sweden citizens are on average healthier than the rest of the world. less obesity and diabetes, they can afford to take more risks now. a lot of other developed countries can't because we have more conditions.

[nullnor]

Actually, Taiwan is quite the successful democracy. And they've handled this outbreak very well, by any account.

And you left off South Korea. I'll venture to say that democracy has done far better by any metric than their dictator-led brethren to the North.

you are right. i don't want to subscribe to authoritarianism. maybe there is a better way.

[revo]

I think the model apply would when compared to their Nordic neighbors, as I haven't read of a genetic difference between the virus among the Nordic countries.

Ok, so this is what we have so far among Scandinavian countries:

Cases/Million
Sweden: 2,368
Norway: 1,471
Finland: 1,006

Deaths/Million
Sweden: 291
Norway: 40
Finland: 45

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Years later, maybe Sweden's model will have emerged best. But based on evidence that we already know, it's quite easy to pick out who's done it right and who hasn't.

[nots]

Ok, so this is what we have so far among Scandinavian countries:

Cases/Million
Sweden: 2,368
Norway: 1,471
Finland: 1,006

Deaths/Million
Sweden: 291
Norway: 40
Finland: 45

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Years later, maybe Sweden's model will have emerged best. But based on evidence that we already know, it's quite easy to pick out who's done it right and who hasn't.

16 states plus Puerto Rico have death rates under 50/million.
18 states plus Puerto Rico have death rates under 1500/million.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

[nullnor]

This clip going viral right now really warmed my heart.

dude this isn't like the 2005 ww1 christmas truce movie. which is a good story btw. it's not like the movie war horse where everyone stopped fighting to save a horse tangled up in a barbed wire fence.

that's the problem with the news these days, sure we want some feel good stories, but when you watch the news, it's 10% coronavirus than 90% how superficially how civilization is handling changes.

i wouldn't be too quick to praise Fauci looking for feel good stories. it's Stockholm Syndrome. there's our Nordic comparison. i blame Brad Pitt.

[GwynnInTheHall]

16 states plus Puerto Rico have death rates under 50/million.
18 states plus Puerto Rico have death rates under 1500/million.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Can we get that in a per capita format.

[Sour Masher]

South Korea really did an amazing job with this pandemic. Really a model to follow going forward: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...secret/611215/

[umjewman]

And you left off South Korea. I'll venture to say that democracy has done far better by any metric than their dictator-led brethren to the North.

I'd have to disagree. According to North Korean reports, they have precisely 0 cases of coronavirus and 0 deaths. How did the South do better than THAT metric?