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Charged with first degree intentional homicide. It's almost like they want him to get off.

Even the NY Times version of events wouldn't support a first-degree murder charge. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/u...ing-video.html

**GwynnInTheHall** · 08-27-2020, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by chancellor View Post

Charged with first degree intentional homicide. It's almost like they want him to get off.

Even the NY Times version of events wouldn't support a first-degree murder charge. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/u...ing-video.html

Call me a cynic, but of course they want him to get away with it.

**chancellor** · 08-27-2020, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post

Call me a cynic, but of course they want him to get away with it.

In this case, we agree.

**Teenwolf** · 08-27-2020, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post

Well, sure. This has always been the case. Mass incarceration is big business in this country, and the stats are clear that POC are policed more, arrested more, imprisoned more for the same crimes than white folks. There is systemic racism in the entire justice system, whether intended or not, and the whole thing needs fundamental changes. But I didn't add that point in my post, because I was responding specifically to TW's continued claim that we can function as a society without police.

But this is an important discussion to have as well. Most folks see the murders by police and that is the main focus in the media. It goes deeper than that, though.

Strawman! Where have I said we need zero police to function as a society?

What I have continued to say is that police endanger the public more than they help the public. That could be greatly minimized by diverting a large portion of all police funds across the board to more specialized mental crisis, drug intervention, etc, specialists to respond to calls for intervention that would lead to less harm to the community by not sending fucking white supremacist psychos with guns into every single domestic situation. Or enforcing bike helmet laws by running over pedestrians and beating them... Its clearly not necessary. Its clearly time to bring these bacon bitches to a pig roast and start trimming the fat.

**Teenwolf** · 08-27-2020, 08:03 PM

Gregg, I'm so sorry you're worried for your daughter who is putting her life on the line by doing the right thing. I'm sure its really difficult seeing these shootings and worrying for your daughter's safety. I can't even fathom it.

Sorry to pry, but I'd like to ask a few personal questions, and promise I'm not looking to attack you. If you don't wanna get into personal stuff, no worries. How did you feel to know that police gave aid and comfort to white supremacist terrorists with guns and allegedly told the group "we're going to push the protestors down towards you guys and we'll let you handle it." (Source is a video of a white supremacist with assault weapon telling this to a group from the other side, i have no idea of context or verification, but given the other videos we've seen, it fits) How does it make you feel that police support the outside shithead terrorists with assault rifles, both in action, out in the street saying they appreciate them and giving them water from a million dollar armored SUV that your tax dollars paid for, as well as in rhetoric, the police chief after the multiple homicide described the shooter as "the 17 year old who was involved in the use of firearms was trying to resolve the problems that were taking place."... does it make you feel like police are protecting the public, or purposefully looking to ignite chaos to justify their own presence? Or was it just a poor decision of several police to befriend the militia, as well as a poor choice of words for the police chief to praise the killer as looking to resolve problems? Clearly, the police presence did nothing but make the situation more volatile rather than less, as it often does. Do you think these were mistakes that could be remedied through better training, or would it be better resolved by utilizing their service less, and more of other specialized services taking their place? I think clearly some combination of re-training and re-structuring response networks, diverting funds and services elsewhere is clearly the answer. But as they currently function, I lean towards cutting funds first, re-training is something every profession should constantly administer, so this should be standard OP for police already.

I just wouldn't be able to comprehend the police coordinating with loosely organized white supremacists to kill protestors that my daughter participated in. It sickens me. This is the reality going on all over the place, with bloated budgets and unaccountable corruption run rampant. This is why I say "defund", but ultimately what I mean is "divert", to other essential services that won't endanger the public so willfully and without accountability. I hope my perspective seems more rational given recent events.

Lastly, have you considered gifting your daughter a bullet proof vest? I would feel 5-10% safer if my child wore one to protest (I mean... in America, obviously).

Sorry for rambling. Sorry for not sourcing the police chief comment, but its a direct quote I transcribed, which is why the language is so strange.

**Sour Masher** · 08-27-2020, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post

Strawman! Where have I said we need zero police to function as a society?

What I have continued to say is that police endanger the public more than they help the public. That could be greatly minimized by diverting a large portion of all police funds across the board to more specialized mental crisis, drug intervention, etc, specialists to respond to calls for intervention that would lead to less harm to the community by not sending fucking white supremacist psychos with guns into every single domestic situation. Or enforcing bike helmet laws by running over pedestrians and beating them... Its clearly not necessary. Its clearly time to bring these bacon bitches to a pig roast and start trimming the fat.

You said, "Gee, what would we ever do without police??! How would we defend ourselves?! What fucking idiocy! Cops are scum, they protect power, they support white supremacy. End of story. Defund!"

I do not take from that sentiment the idea that we should have some police. Why would we want any police if they are a net negative for society? If they do more harm than good, it is logical to conclude by that sentiment that the less we have, the better. Or, another possible solution is to do all the stuff you say that helps reduce crimes proactively rather than reactively, but also rethink what we want from LEOs and how to train them, vet them, oversee them, etc.

I know that total eradication of law enforcement, or even a massive reduction of it, is a very extreme, very fringe idea that very few people mean when they say defund police. But I also know that it is an idea that is being touted as a mainstream leftwing position by fearmongers on the right looking to deflect from the real issues and real solutions in play. Instead of addressing and admittiing to the massive problems with policing, they say, "look over there, those guys hate all police, want them all gone, and then our society will be totally lawless!"

You and I are pretty close in what we want on a lot of things, but I get frustrated when I see people I mostly agree with go too far in their rhetoric and use language that so readily gives fodder to fear mongers on the other side. You see this on the right and the left and it is those comments that get picked up and ran with by the other side. Such extreme language makes for awfully good locker room clippings for the other side. Look at the title of this thread, or even just this post I am responding to. Hell, your "mostly" in your title was restrained compared to subsequent posts.

And I'm not saying your anger is unwarranted or unjustified. But when I see the rage become so sweeping, so all encompassing, I see it as the mirror image of the sort of language that must have dominated the pamphlets and sermons that 17 year old murderer must have grew up on, where he saw a whole group of people as rioting looters out to take and burn the world, so he must go out and protect and save it. Such righteous rage not only leads to statements that allow fear mongers to stir up support from those that oppose you, it also leads to self-justified violence. And as I have said before, if enough on the left wanna go that route to get the changes we need to get done in the the good old US of A that it acutally comes to that, I am putting my money on the side that probably owns 90% of the guns and ammo (or maybe 89.999999999% with Revo packing).

**The Feral Slasher** · 08-27-2020, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer View Post

I don't know how much hope I have either. I want to have hope. I don't know if I do. But I'm also not sure whether an extreme event would push things in a better direction or worse. I am inclined to think maybe worse. I think people's consciences being pricked (continually) is more likely to end up in a better place than a repeat of the French Revolution would.

I have been so preoccupied with taking care of parents and kids that I have not thought about the country's future much. Other than I have realized how the two sides view the world completely differently. There shouldn't be just two sides, but it sure seems like that is where we are right now. And thinking about it things don't look like there is much reason for optimism. Best case is we return to the pre-trump years I suppose

**The Feral Slasher** · 08-27-2020, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post

I have been so preoccupied with taking care of parents and kids that I have not thought about the country's future much. Other than I have realized how the two sides view the world completely differently. There shouldn't be just two sides, but it sure seems like that is where we are right now. And thinking about it things don't look like there is much reason for optimism. Best case is we return to the pre-trump years I suppose

We have several Canadians here....is your country as divided as the U.S. ? Is your media as partisan as it is here ?

**Teenwolf** · 08-27-2020, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by The Feral Slasher View Post

We have several Canadians here....is your country as divided as the U.S. ? Is your media as partisan as it is here ?

The voters are pretty widely divided, the Canadian media landscape has pockets of right wing media, but no big Fox News equivalent. Its likely the voting system having 5 relevant parties that keeps our democracy from devolving into into red vs blue relentless division and hatred. My hatred of the other 4 party voters is much more nuanced, lol.

But we are united in our sheer terror at the devastation going on in the US, across the board. All mentions of the US are now in the form of cautionary tales or dystopian musing.

**TranaGreg** · 08-28-2020, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post

The voters are pretty widely divided, the Canadian media landscape has pockets of right wing media, but no big Fox News equivalent. Its likely the voting system having 5 relevant parties that keeps our democracy from devolving into into red vs blue relentless division and hatred. My hatred of the other 4 party voters is much more nuanced, lol.

But we are united in our sheer terror at the devastation going on in the US, across the board. All mentions of the US are now in the form of cautionary tales or dystopian musing.

I'll echo this ... there clearly is a rural / urban divide, but the differences are not nearly as visceral as in the US. I have family that visited with us this month from Alberta, one for the most right-wing places in the country, but we can still have reasoned discussions about most things including politics (I have learned tho that there are a few things I should tread carefully on - e.g. they are very religious).

I read a poll recently that talked about how it was one of the most unified results of any recent polls, consistent across all political lines - the question was should we open the border with US (resoundingly the answer is no).

**Sour Masher** · 08-28-2020, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post

I do not understand how all those cops didn't stop him by tackling him as he slowly walked around the SUV, instead of gently pulling on his shirt and shooting him in the back multiple times once he got there. They couldn't tase him or tackle him well before that? How is this lack of training still happening after everything that has been going on? They still have absolutely no clue how to stop this man without shooting him multiple times in the back? That is still the first default reaction with an unarmed, noncompliant but non attacking suspect? Anyone with LEO training here? Is this really how they are trained? This is acceptable to those defending cops in light of multiple incidents like this?

As an update, police are now claiming they used a stun gun on Blake twice in an attempt to subdue him, but it did not work. I am suspect of that claim, but it sure would have been nice if they had body cams to verify it! Even if it is true, there has to be other nonlethal ways for multiple officers to subdue a non-compliant suspect. In the video we actually saw, he showed no indication of attacking the police. Several shots in the back and point blank range with 3 young children in the car is not the appropriate response. I very much fear what will happen if that officer gets off on this, but the defense is being laid, including the fact that Blake apparently had a knife, though no one is claiming the officers knew he had it before they shot him...yet: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...keG?li=BBnb7Kz

**GwynnInTheHall** · 08-28-2020, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post

As an update, police are now claiming they used a stun gun on Blake twice in an attempt to subdue him, but it did not work. I am suspect of that claim, but it sure would have been nice if they had body cams to verify it! Even if it is true, there has to be other nonlethal ways for multiple officers to subdue a non-compliant suspect. In the video we actually saw, he showed no indication of attacking the police. Several shots in the back and point blank range with 3 young children in the car is not the appropriate response. I very much fear what will happen if that officer gets off on this, but the defense is being laid, including the fact that Blake apparently had a knife, though no one is claiming the officers knew he had it before they shot him...yet: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...keG?li=BBnb7Kz

Cops are gonna say whatever they can to save their asses and their corrupt brothers in blue are going to do what they can to help them get away with this.

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