Election 2020

[GwynnInTheHall]

Give you a break?

Fuck That, you don't give a shit about doing the right thing when it comes to this primary.

They want Biden to win as many delegates so if they have to replace him with someone they can point to the totals and pretend Bernie wasn't the people's second choice.

If it's not going to Biden, they better select Bernie.

He withdrew because BIDEN had him by the delegates NOT THE DNC.

but go ahead with the sanders hate and watch this election go to trump...... Again.

[Sour Masher]

Give you a break?

Fuck That, you don't give a shit about doing the right thing when it comes to this primary.

They want Biden to win as many delegates so if they have to replace him with someone they can point to the totals and pretend Bernie wasn't the people's second choice.

If it's not going to Biden, they better select Bernie.

He withdrew because BIDEN had him by the delegates NOT THE DNC.

but go ahead with the sanders hate and watch this election go to trump...... Again.

Wow, I thought you had accepted the rules being what they are on this. I'm saddened to learn that Bernie supporters may default to this stance. The rules everyone played allowed for anyone to be put forth if no one met the vote count. I can certainly understand wanting Bernie, who actually ran, to get that nod over someone out of nowhere pick, but the DNC doesn't have to do that, because Bernie didn't get the votes. He just didn't, and while I like Bernie, he also isn't what the party as a whole is right now. They are not going to give the nomination to an outsider to the party. I thought just recently you suggested you would be cool if they picked someone else, like Cuomo or whoever. Now you are saying it better be Bernie or bust? That seems like a 180 from what you said previously.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Wow, I thought you had accepted the rules being what they are on this. I'm saddened to learn that Bernie supporters may default to this stance. The rules everyone played allowed for anyone to be put forth if no one met the vote count. I can certainly understand wanting Bernie, who actually ran, to get that nod over someone out of nowhere pick, but the DNC doesn't have to do that, because Bernie didn't get the votes. He just didn't, and while I like Bernie, he also isn't what the party as a whole is right now. They are not going to give the nomination to an outsider to the party. I thought just recently you suggested you would be cool if they picked someone else, like Cuomo or whoever. Now you are saying it better be Bernie or bust? That seems like a 180 from what you said previously.

If he stayed in and Biden gets torpedoed by this--he absolutely would have gotten the votes.

I'm just saying--Sanders supporters think the rule s are shit.

They feel Biden, was a shill, but ok he was getting the votes legitimately. NOW that he might be in trouble they pull Sanders off the NY ballot? Why? So HE won't close the gap and have an argument if Biden is replaced.

I loathe Trump, but my disdain for the DNC and the system isn't too far behind.

Bernie should have right of first refusal if they're going to replace him, but he won't. I get that--don't agree with it, but I get that.

Replacing Biden with Cuomo is probably the ONLY person I would vote for if Biden was replaced. But even then, ONLY if Biden has accrued a pluracy--legitimately--not because the DNC rigged the endgame knowing they were going to replace Biden with anyone BUT Sanders.

I don't give a shit what the DNC wants, nor does any Sanders supporter. They/we already think Sanders would fare better vs Trump, Biden had the lead and until lately, looked to cruise to a pluracy, which he still may do, but removing Sanders from the ballot tells me one thing--the DNC is scared the allegations may be true. I have no opinion on it because I don't have every article in front of me yet so I'm not drawing a conclusion, but if it's enough to sink his candidacy--I'm NOT ok with the DNC forcing yet another unethical candidate on me forgoing Sanders.

My state will still go Blue, it's the other states where Sanders supporters will be pissed that they need to consider and take seriously.

I hope it's a bunch of BS and Biden is exonerated, if not It'll be yet another example of the DNC foisting an unethical candidate upon us and jeopardizing (possibly losing ) another very winnable election.

[Sour Masher]

Oh, I see, the issue is what if Bernie stayed in and got to the number. I can understand that anger, for sure. Only, I don't think he would have, even with these new allegations, even if he was still on every ballot remaining. This isn't going to sink Biden, even if it should. This allegation is too little too late for most voters, my own wife included. She cares more about how many are dying of COVID-19 and won't even talk to me about these allegations. She only says, where was this woman with these new allegations months ago when we might have been able to get a different/better candidate against Trump. She is all in on the anti-Trump vote, and I suspect most Dems are at this point too.

[Sour Masher]

I'd really love it if someone could help me make heads or tails of LaCasse not only saying she is still voting for Biden, but that she thinks he is an "ok guy." My whole opinion on the validity of Reade's newest claim is based on the credibility of this neighbor, who seems to have zero political motivation in coming forward and seems to have no reason to lie in general. Yet, I don't know what to make of the "I always thought/ still think he is an ok guy" stance on Biden, if she actually heard and believed Reade all those years ago.

Was it just so common back then for a guy who heard/thought a woman liked him to push her against the wall and put his hand up her skirt that someone her heard it was just like "just another dog, of well...so what is his stance on pollution regulations?" and that knowledge didn't fundamentally change her view on him? That phrase/stance on Biden for LaCasse is a real head scratcher to me.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Oh, I see, the issue is what if Bernie stayed in and got to the number. I can understand that anger, for sure. Only, I don't think he would have, even with these new allegations, even if he was still on every ballot remaining. This isn't going to sink Biden, even if it should. This allegation is too little too late for most voters, my own wife included. She cares more about how many are dying of COVID-19 and won't even talk to me about these allegations. She only says, where was this woman with these new allegations months ago when we might have been able to get a different/better candidate against Trump. She is all in on the anti-Trump vote, and I suspect most Dems are at this point too.

Correct and all I said was I hope the DNC was getting in front of this allegation, but they only look like they're trying to assure Sanders never get's a second thought.

But some take offense to my comments the #1 the DNC has fucked up an election before and #2 the DNC has a history of fucking over ethical candidates for whom they deem preferable.



Oh but the RULES. If they're shit rules, they're shit.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I'd really love it if someone could help me make heads or tails of LaCasse not only saying she is still voting for Biden, but that she thinks he is an "ok guy." My whole opinion on the validity of Reade's newest claim is on based on the credibility of this neighbor, who seems to have zero political motivation in coming forward and seems to have no reason to lie in general. Yet, I don't know what to make of the "I always thought/ still think he is an ok guy" stance on Biden, if she actually heard and believed Reade all those years ago.

Was it just so common back then for a guy who heard/thought a woman liked him to push her against the wall and put his hand up her skirt that someone her heard it was just like "just another dog, of well...so what is his stance on pollution regulations?" and that knowledge didn't fundamentally change her view on him? That phrase/stance on Biden for LaCasse is a real head scratcher to me.

No it wasn't but in today's political climate people have forgone integrity and ethics--they only want their guy to win.

[Sour Masher]

No it wasn't but in today's political climate people have forgone integrity and ethics--they only want their guy to win.

That is a general assessment of voters today. I'm more fascinated and perplexed on LeCasse specifically. I just don't get the "he is an okay guy" stance. I want to know what to make of it. Does it imply she didn't believe Reade? If that isn't the case, I think the fact she still thinks highly of Biden adds a lot of weight to her statement. Unless she is lying to make herself look unbiased, the fact she likes Biden and is voting for him makes her statement very compelling. If you believe LaCasse, you must believe Reade made this claim to people back when it happened, and if she did, it certainly adds weight to her claim and undercuts the "timing is suspicious" argument against her.

[DMT]

Give you a break?

Fuck That, you don't give a shit about doing the right thing when it comes to this primary.

They want Biden to win as many delegates so if they have to replace him with someone they can point to the totals and pretend Bernie wasn't the people's second choice.

If it's not going to Biden, they better select Bernie.

He withdrew because BIDEN had him by the delegates NOT THE DNC.

but go ahead with the sanders hate and watch this election go to trump...... Again.

The primary is over. If all the "lefty" neverBiden whiners want to sit out, let them (you said you wouldn't do that but surprising to no one it sounds like you're re-considering). When Biden wins anyways, the left is going to feel that much more victimized while refusing to look in the mirror to see that they brought it all on themselves.

[DMT]

No it wasn't but in today's political climate people have forgone integrity and ethics--they only want their guy to win.

And that's exactly why the left is powerless. Because they want to throw everyone under the bus to make themselves feel better. Politics is the dirtiest game in town yet the left only wants saints to be in power. It's so laughably naive and stupid.

[GwynnInTheHall]

And that's exactly why the left is powerless. Because they want to throw everyone under the bus to make themselves feel better. Politics is the dirtiest game in town yet the left only wants saints to be in power. It's so laughably naive and stupid.

The left is powerless because when push comes to shove many of them are just like the righties, they have no political integrity.

And what's laughable is that you think Ethics is something to make fun of.

SOK, you can live in shit because it gets you what you want..I won't stop you.

[GwynnInTheHall]

The primary is over. If all the "lefty" neverBiden whiners want to sit out, let them (you said you wouldn't do that but surprising to no one it sounds like you're re-considering). When Biden wins anyways, the left is going to feel that much more victimized while refusing to look in the mirror to see that they brought it all on themselves.

heh, yeah you'd like them to fast forward to Nov wouldn't you.. If Biden is replaced for sexual assult you own Jessie an apology.

[chancellor]

No it wasn't but in today's political climate people have forgone integrity and ethics--they only want their guy to win.

Since I've ripped on CNN on forgoing integrity and ethics in the past, I will give credit where it's due - Don Lemon did a highly credible job questioning Stacey Abrams on this topic last night. He didn't merely ask the obvious question, but followed up with a comparison between the corroboration quantity in this case versus the Ford case. Abrams hid behind the NYT review that claimed Biden's accuser "was not credible". Lemon didn't have time to push her further, but his facial expression told all.

[Teenwolf]

That is a general assessment of voters today. I'm more fascinated and perplexed on LeCasse specifically. I just don't get the "he is an okay guy" stance. I want to know what to make of it. Does it imply she didn't believe Reade? If that isn't the case, I think the fact she still thinks highly of Biden adds a lot of weight to her statement. Unless she is lying to make herself look unbiased, the fact she likes Biden and is voting for him makes her statement very compelling. If you believe LaCasse, you must believe Reade made this claim to people back when it happened, and if she did, it certainly adds weight to her claim and undercuts the "timing is suspicious" argument against her.

It makes sense because when Tara Reade was telling people what happened in the early 90's, she wasn't describing it herself as a sexual assault. In the interview I posted over a month ago, she claimed that when she told her mother about the incident, it was her mother that informed her this was an assault, and it took her some time to digest what happened. Initially, Reade interpreted the presumptuous finger-bang as a failed come-on, and she mentioned that she felt guilty for emasculating him in turning him down. Says a lot about how gender roles were perceived at the time.

My belief is Tara Reade absolutely told the neighbour all of the details which she corroborated. However, the way Reade described it at the time is unlikely to be in the context of a sexual assault. It would be more "can you believe this powerful senator called me to his office and tried to put the moves on me?! He's married! He's 50! Gross!" I don't think the sexual assault aspect of the brief finger-bang would have been emphasized at the time. I also believe the neighbour continuing to not weigh the incident heavily speaks to her having grown up in that generation, as well as the lack of seriousness that it was likely spoken about at the time.

Many sexual assaults are misfiled as something different by the victims as a coping mechanism. That's what she is claiming. I see no reason to doubt her, as it's actually completely consistent with her story. SHE didn't call in to Larry King, because she wasn't processing her sexual assault as such. Her mother called because she knew it was assault.

Given Joe Biden's complete lack of respect for bodily autonomy, many public instances of him kissing, sniffing, rubbing, and touching unwilling victims, I think people claiming there's zero reason to suspect Biden crossed personal boundaries in private is incredibly biased and dumb.

[nots]

That is a general assessment of voters today. I'm more fascinated and perplexed on LeCasse specifically. I just don't get the "he is an okay guy" stance. I want to know what to make of it. Does it imply she didn't believe Reade? If that isn't the case, I think the fact she still thinks highly of Biden adds a lot of weight to her statement. Unless she is lying to make herself look unbiased, the fact she likes Biden and is voting for him makes her statement very compelling. If you believe LaCasse, you must believe Reade made this claim to people back when it happened, and if she did, it certainly adds weight to her claim and undercuts the "timing is suspicious" argument against her.

Your question speaks to the difficulty of adjudicating these type of cases so long after they happen. Absent more compelling evidence (which I can’t imagine exists) I don’t think it’s right to presume Biden (or Kavanaugh) guilty and force him from the nomination.