Election 2020

[baldgriff]

So the evil people killed people with glasses to make people equal, but we abolished slavery and gave women the right to vote in order to give individuals rights ? You don't think abolishing slavery or giving women the right to vote made things fair or equal ?

The abolition of slavery and giving women the right to voter - created more diverse thought and allowed people the opportunity to express themselves more openly as individuals which is certainly not the same as killing millions of people because they appeared "smarter" than other individuals. Honestly, are you really trying to make an equivalency between Socialist Dictatorships killing millions and millions of people to our country offering up and providing people "individual" freedoms?

Its silly to think that you believe that these things are anywhere equivalent.

One of these actions is to the benefit of the government and the other is to the benefit of the individual person. I guess you can decide which is which.

[The Feral Slasher]

The abolition of slavery and giving women the right to voter - created more diverse thought and allowed people the opportunity to express themselves more openly as individuals which is certainly not the same as killing millions of people because they appeared "smarter" than other individuals. Honestly, are you really trying to make an equivalency between Socialist Dictatorships killing millions and millions of people to our country offering up and providing people "individual" freedoms?

Its silly to think that you believe that these things are anywhere equivalent.

One of these actions is to the benefit of the government and the other is to the benefit of the individual person. I guess you can decide which is which.

That wasn't at all what I was doing. I was responding to your earlier post that every time a government tries to make things fair it ends up bad for their people. Ending slavery and recognizing women's right to vote make things fair, but apparently you view it differently. Anyway, I think we can just agree to disagree

[baldgriff]

That wasn't at all what I was doing. I was responding to your earlier post that every time a government tries to make things fair it ends up bad for their people. Ending slavery and recognizing women's right to vote make things fair, but apparently you view it differently. Anyway, I think we can just agree to disagree

The actions of the Socialist Dictators was an attempt to make each individual equal to the other, and you are punished for being extraordinary or better than the mean. The government is in control and determining how everyone should be "equal". The offering of freedom and individuality to the slaves and women placed the honus on the individual to be in control of themselves. Lots of big differences there behind the motivations of the Socialists and our government granting more freedoms.

That said, Ive agreed to disagree with many a person and am always happy to do so. Thanks FS for the discussion!

[B-Fly]

Name recognition is obviously a big part of it this early, but in national polling and in critical Midwestern swing state polling (most recently Iowa and Michigan), Joe Biden is still performing the best both against the Democratic field and head-to-head against Trump.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

[Judge Jude]

Sean Hannity yesterday already was playing the "Biden highlight reel," which includes him saying of Obama in 2007, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

it's going to be a looooooong two years....

[baldgriff]

There is no way that the Dems run Biden as the Pres. candidate. They are a fast moving train that is rolling left left left........ There will be no moderate voice there. When people like Michael Moore say Ocasio-Cortez should be "the Democrats Leader" they are telling the Dems flat out - keep moving left left left. Nope Bidens days as an option are long long gone.

[B-Fly]

There is no way that the Dems run Biden as the Pres. candidate. They are a fast moving train that is rolling left left left........ There will be no moderate voice there. When people like Michael Moore say Ocasio-Cortez should be "the Democrats Leader" they are telling the Dems flat out - keep moving left left left. Nope Bidens days as an option are long long gone.

I think you'd be surprised. The DNC succeeded in the November 2018 House elections by recruiting and supporting candidates representative of the broader electorate they needed to win each district, including the districts they intended to flip and the districts that Trump won in 2016. The left wing probably wouldn't be happy with anyone other than Sanders or Warren (or a younger candidate wholly embracing the Sanders or Warren agenda). I think there's a much better chance for a "mainstream" candidate, bolstered by enough poll-tested progressive proposals to avoid completely losing the left, to secure the nomination.

[baldgriff]

Interesting take B-fly. I think the biggest problem the Dems may have is keeping both the middle left and the far left. The more progressive socialist left of the party seem to really be pushing the boundaries of the party. Remember the biggest problem with Bernie in the primaries was - "He's not even a Democrat - He's a Socialist". Now you have more of those not really Democrats in the camp and they are loudly pushing the party to the left.

It will be interesting to see where this ends up.

[B-Fly]

Interesting take B-fly. I think the biggest problem the Dems may have is keeping both the middle left and the far left. The more progressive socialist left of the party seem to really be pushing the boundaries of the party. Remember the biggest problem with Bernie in the primaries was - "He's not even a Democrat - He's a Socialist". Now you have more of those not really Democrats in the camp and they are loudly pushing the party to the left.

It will be interesting to see where this ends up.

Of course, no matter who the Democrats nominate, the Republican Party, conservative PACs and think tanks, and Russia, will try to convince all of us that the nominee is an identity-politics peddling Socialist who hates white people and America.

[baldgriff]

[swampdragon]

I am a liberal democrat and would be a lot happier with a centrist democrat or less progressive democrat WINNING
than a liberal/progressive democrat LOSING

I think moving to the center would gain more votes and lose less left votes.

I am still waiting for Sherrod Brown or John Hickenlooper to announce candidacy.

An interesting BIden strategy was floated out there.
Biden runs promising only one term (dispelling age issues)
announces more progressive VP candidate early on as part of a ticket
says that VP will be groomed to be president after 4 years

just a thought

[nots]

Of course, no matter who the Democrats nominate, the Republican Party, conservative PACs and think tanks, and Russia, will try to convince all of us that the nominee is an identity-politics peddling Socialist who hates white people and America.

Exactly similar to the way the Democrats, liberal PACs and think tanks label every Republican nominee as a racist, homophobe looking to cancel their social security so they give another tax break to the 1%, who are all Republicans.

[nots]

I am a liberal democrat and would be a lot happier with a centrist democrat or less progressive democrat WINNING
than a liberal/progressive democrat LOSING

I think moving to the center would gain more votes and lose less left votes.

I am still waiting for Sherrod Brown or John Hickenlooper to announce candidacy.

An interesting BIden strategy was floated out there.
Biden runs promising only one term (dispelling age issues)
announces more progressive VP candidate early on as part of a ticket
says that VP will be groomed to be president after 4 years

just a thought

I agree. Biden will win easily. Some of the further left candidates will be a much heavier lift. Hopefully the folks voting in Democratic primaries realize this.

[B-Fly]

Exactly similar to the way the Democrats, liberal PACs and think tanks label every Republican nominee as a racist, homophobe looking to cancel their social security so they give another tax break to the 1%, who are all Republicans.

True, and add Russia to that list, too.

[onejayhawk]

I agree. Biden will win easily. Some of the further left candidates will be a much heavier lift. Hopefully the folks voting in Democratic primaries realize this.

I disagree. Democrats have a long history of pulling down front-runners. I don't know who will come out of the pack, but I am confident there will be someone.

J