Election 2020

[The Feral Slasher]

I reject the premise that government or the US government can’t do anything right. However, the bigger the project or program and the bigger the government (or the country it serves) the more likely it is to make a situation worse. I don’t know how that fits into whatever narrative you are trying to create.

Ok, didn't really answer my question.

[baldgriff]

Which is why we need to continue to implement a new system.

Ive already stated the reason why ACA doesnt work - and you appear to agree with my assessment about the Insurance Companies holding all the cards. So you might then agree that its and ECON 101 thing. So you have to give the deck of cards back to the people that buy the product. You have to allow for there to be competition in an actual market where the buyer can choose what they want and how much they want to pay. The government has to stop forcing people to buy things they may not want to buy.

The other option is what Kamala floated (and backtracked from) a total single payer system with no private insurance. Again, which nots and I stated will not work because government is not efficient or particularly good with money.

Why does Lasik surgery cost so much less now than it did 15 years ago? Much of that is due to the competition in the industry. Quality eye care and procedures being done for minimal cost - because the buyer can choose who and where to have his eyes done.

[nots]

Ok, didn't really answer my question.

Pot meet kettle.

[The Feral Slasher]

At least u libertarians have fun, lol

[baldgriff]

At least u libertarians have fun, lol

[DMT]

Why does Lasik surgery cost so much less now than it did 15 years ago? Much of that is due to the competition in the industry. Quality eye care and procedures being done for minimal cost - because the buyer can choose who and where to have his eyes done.

Any why does insulin cost way more than it did 15 years ago? Hmmm, maybe technological advancement for the former and price gouging for the latter? Your overconfidence in the market is unfounded.

[baldgriff]

Any why does insulin cost way more than it did 15 years ago? Hmmm, maybe technological advancement for the former and price gouging for the latter? Your overconfidence in the market is unfounded.

Lasik - No Insurance Company is involved - just you and the doctor. Insulin - get a prescription, go to pharmacy with insurance card - not being able to shop around for your medication or actually know what the price is going to be. Pay whatever amount is not covered by the insurance company. Again, because the consumer of the product has no ability to shop around for a best price. They get what the insurance company will allow them to purchase. The person in need of insulin (demand) has no choice of where he gets it from or ability to get it cheaper elsewhere (supply). So the suppliers again hold all of the cards.

Seems silly that I cant go to CVS website and find out what they charge for insulin.

https://www.cvs.com/search?cp=%5B%7B...chTerm=insulin

Why do we accept that we cant go to the store and get a price for a specific medication? The market is built in the favor of the supplier and we just continue to accept it as a natural thing.

[nots]

Any why does insulin cost way more than it did 15 years ago? Hmmm, maybe technological advancement for the former and price gouging for the latter? Your overconfidence in the market is unfounded.

And I would argue that your overconfidence in the federal government is unfounded.

[DMT]

Lasik - No Insurance Company is involved - just you and the doctor. Insulin - get a prescription, go to pharmacy with insurance card - not being able to shop around for your medication or actually know what the price is going to be. Pay whatever amount is not covered by the insurance company. Again, because the consumer of the product has no ability to shop around for a best price. They get what the insurance company will allow them to purchase. The person in need of insulin (demand) has no choice of where he gets it from or ability to get it cheaper elsewhere (supply). So the suppliers again hold all of the cards.

Seems silly that I cant go to CVS website and find out what they charge for insulin.

https://www.cvs.com/search?cp=%5B%7B...chTerm=insulin

Why do we accept that we cant go to the store and get a price for a specific medication? The market is built in the favor of the supplier and we just continue to accept it as a natural thing.

The government should be able to negotiate drug prices considering they're by far the largest consumer. Yet they can't thanks to Republicans.

[baldgriff]

The government should be able to negotiate drug prices considering they're by far the largest consumer. Yet they can't thanks to Republicans.

This inefficiency (left vs right) will continue to run ad nauseum based on whatever program we discuss ....... so how is it that you propose to change this?

Edit to add: Do you really want the government bidding on drug prices? See what our government negotiators for the military have done with bidding??

[DMT]

This inefficiency (left vs right) will continue to run ad nauseum based on whatever program we discuss ....... so how is it that you propose to change this?

Edit to add: Do you really want the government bidding on drug prices? See what our government negotiators for the military have done with bidding??

Do you really think the current price gouging by Big Pharma is acceptable? I accept that the system is failing. You seem to as well. I have proposed shifting to a single payer system. What is your proposal? Keep everything the same and those who get screwed, well LIFE AIN'T FAIR WOMP WOMP?!??!?

[TranaGreg]

This inefficiency (left vs right) will continue to run ad nauseum based on whatever program we discuss ....... so how is it that you propose to change this?

Edit to add: Do you really want the government bidding on drug prices? See what our government negotiators for the military have done with bidding??

government bidding vs free market ... (source: American Diabetes Association)

[baldgriff]

Do you really think the current price gouging by Big Pharma is acceptable? I accept that the system is failing. You seem to as well. I have proposed shifting to a single payer system. What is your proposal? Keep everything the same and those who get screwed, well LIFE AIN'T FAIR WOMP WOMP?!??!?

I dont believe that the price gouging is acceptable. Why is it the medical care and prescription medication is so expensive? Well as Ive stated - you and I have no ability to shop around for an actual price for the procedure or medication. We live in AZ - why do so many people here drive to Mexico to have medical or dental procedures done there? Well, they are told upfront how much it will cost and they know how much the medication will cost. They actually find it cheaper to make the drive to another country and get the procedure done.

Similarly - I believe that the consumer should be able to make decisions about their health care based on a published schedule of fees. That just doesnt happen here. Why should I be told not only what prescription I can have, but how much I have to pay for it by some third party that owns the whole process??

Give the power to the people. Let them be responsible for their own care and decisions on how to live their lives.

Some people may get screwed - I wont disagree with this. People will get screwed in a "single payer system" also - which nots linked to a poignant article about people that got screwed in the Canadian system currently. You seem to think that single payer is some cure all - that will heal all ills and even better the "unfairness" of the world. It won't - and there will always be people getting screwed. As you and I both have stated LIFE AINT FAIR.... because someone somewhere always gets screwed.

[The Feral Slasher]

government bidding vs free market ... (source: American Diabetes Association)

Several years ago I went up to Vancouver with my daughter who has Type 1 Diabetes. We each thought the other one packed the insulin from the fridge. I wasted two hours of my life in a panic before I figured I could walk into a pharmacy and buy insulin without a prescription and at about 10% of what my insurance pays.

[DMT]

I dont believe that the price gouging is acceptable. Why is it the medical care and prescription medication is so expensive? Well as Ive stated - you and I have no ability to shop around for an actual price for the procedure or medication. We live in AZ - why do so many people here drive to Mexico to have medical or dental procedures done there? Well, they are told upfront how much it will cost and they know how much the medication will cost. They actually find it cheaper to make the drive to another country and get the procedure done.

Similarly - I believe that the consumer should be able to make decisions about their health care based on a published schedule of fees. That just doesnt happen here. Why should I be told not only what prescription I can have, but how much I have to pay for it by some third party that owns the whole process??

Give the power to the people. Let them be responsible for their own care and decisions on how to live their lives.

Some people may get screwed - I wont disagree with this. People will get screwed in a "single payer system" also - which nots linked to a poignant article about people that got screwed in the Canadian system currently. You seem to think that single payer is some cure all - that will heal all ills and even better the "unfairness" of the world. It won't - and there will always be people getting screwed. As you and I both have stated LIFE AINT FAIR.... because someone somewhere always gets screwed.

As has been undeniably proven in study after study looking at costs vs. efficacy, we are ALL getting screwed in this country because the system is completely broken (except the rich of course). Aren't you all about shaking up the system? Why are you so opposed to shaking up the healthcare market? Look at the insulin prices...why are we 4x what other countries are paying?